I'm assuming there's going to be a no-picture template for this, I don't want some stupid forum avatar or a picture on it as frankly I think it looks cheap and cheesey.
It wouldn't impress me as a hiring manager.
Jerry
· 6 months ago
I'm intrigued. I've been skeptical up to this point, but, maybe, just maybe, it will work out to a fine tool for MCP/MCTS/MCITP/MCT.
James
· 6 months ago
Awesome!! When can we beta test!!
Benjamin S
· 6 months ago
Sarah, maybe you can help us get these comments to Ken... At the end of his post "More feedback on Digital Credentials" he asks for people who may be interested in a beta of the digital cards. The more I learn about these, the more I want in on that.
Ricardo Santos
· 6 months ago
Bring it on, Sarah! And keep all the options open, please. I agree with Peter when he says we need a "no-photo/avatar" option.
It's the digital services part of this VBC that count, and there, I think MS is entitled to set strict usage rules, as currently they exist. But please, leave the options available. This world needs every MCP: the cheesey, the snobs, the cool, the geeks, whatever!
I'm an MCP & I want my VBC!
Krishna Chytanya
· 6 months ago
So far looking good.. but I would defer my opinion until I see the real deal.. keep up the good work
James Goodwin
· 6 months ago
Looking much better than I had feared.
Danny
· 6 months ago
This looks great. I think it will be fun and catchy at first, but the real value will show itself later after the newness has worn off. This will be a secure and trusted way to share your credentials. I am all for it, and would love to beta test this!
me__probably_former_mcp
· 6 months ago
That doesn't look great, it looks like a http://www.hawkeyechannel.com/ page (good finding Wayne). I don't like how it looks, don't like way you introduce (force) it, you promote it (lies about ecology). Give me choice I would like to pay for old plastic more eco friendly wallet cards.
Epic fail made by green (as in dollar not ecology).
Ken Rosen (Microsoft)
· 6 months ago
For those of you who've offered to help us beta, both here and on other threads: thanks! We'll be in touch when we're ready for testing.
Me_Probably_Former_MCP: I think we understand your position on this. :-)
me__probably_former_mcp
· 6 months ago
It is not position it is a fact that Digital Wallet Cards aren't greener. You probably have realized it already...
Chris S.
· 6 months ago
Epic win, MSL! Thank you. Way to do your "green" part.
me
· 6 months ago
Chris: you have written it correctly "green" is not green. They are making more pollution with this move!
I wonder if you MSL will really try to sell it as a green even if other MS web pages says opposite (linked here!). What a fail. Worst than Vista and MCITP.
Ken there are more "trolls" besides me in previous posts with comments about how they see current MSL offer. Maybe someone from MSL should read and answer it.
Ken Rosen
· 6 months ago
Me, I'm reading every comment with great interest and an open mind.
I understand that several of you aren't happy with this decision, and while I regret that, I also know that with 2.3 million MCPs out there, it's inevitable tht some of you are going to be disappointed by pretty much *any* decision we make.
The challenge for my team is to figure out whether a handful of comments represent a community consensus or the opinions of a vocal, sincere minority.
So far, the feedback we've received does not indicate a consensus, so we'll wait and see what happens over this next year as we continue rolling out our digital benefits and send out our annual satisfaction survey.
I won't attempt to sway your opinion, because you seem pretty decided--but I do hope you'll keep an open mind and review our new virtual business cards (we'd be glad to set you up as a tester, just let us know).
My only request of you is: please extend the courtesy and intellectual honesty of labelling your opinions as opinions rather than fact.
Statements like "it is not position it is a fact..." and "they are making more pollution with this move" are suppositions that you are making based on the absence of data. You can jump to whatever conclusions you like, but for your own credibility I recommend acknowledging when you do so. :-)
Wayne Hoggett
· 6 months ago
Ken, I'm surprised you even bother responding to comments like those above. Some people just have issues with successful companies like Microsoft, and those people are always going to take the time to whine about everything Microsoft does. They’re probably only writing comments because you reply. You could try ignoring them to see if they go away :)
Ken Rosen (Microsoft)
· 6 months ago
Maybe so, Wayne, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. :-)
It's hard for me to believe that someone would take the time to write if they didn't really care about the specific issue.
I hope the most outspoken critics here will be among the first to evaluate our new virtual business cards!
Peter Read
· 6 months ago
Ken... You make a valid point, if you're 'recruiting' testers here I'll bite.
Wayne - how many people with issues against MS and who 'whine about everything MS does' do you think hold MCP's and care enough to comment? I've certainly made comments that are critical of this.
Pedro
· 6 months ago
Looking better ! I think you´re getting somewhere . Looks suitably professional .
Chris Rue
· 6 months ago
Wow...the Project Purple Eyes is really shaping up great, Sarah! Can't wait to try this out!
Kudos to you and the team for all your hard work.
me
· 6 months ago
1. I am MCP - that means I've passed old exam type. MCTS people aren't MCPs - even MS doesn't know how to call them. Sometimes you call them as MCPs sometimes you don't. At the same time you (trika) have said that MCTS isn't MCP credentials sense. So in what sense MCTS is MCP? For me if someone isn't MCP in credential sense he/she is not in any sense. So you CAN NOT call those people as MCPs! Next time when you will BTW I'm MCTS also. You really have mess here. Surveys won't help you.
2. There are plenty of comments about MCITP value in previous posts (not only by me). You haven't answered to that. I'm sure you have surveys that show how sucessful is MCITP. Maybe that link will lead to some comments from you http://www.google.com/trends?q=mcse%2C+mcitp&am... Google trends shows what real people are looking for. We are comparing here one ITpro Windows Server MCSE cert with 9 MCITP exams.
3. About Green. I've showed you it already few times. No response. I will do it every time when you say MCP/MCTS(!) is going green. The facts are:
- you need at least one physical server (of course you need more to make it reliable and available for almost 2.5 mln community). According to MS "green" calculator (http://www.microsoft.com/environment/greenit/Pr...) one physical server emits about 5 tons of CO2 yearly.
- plastic production emits up to 6 tons of CO2 per one ton of plastic. One ton of plastic is a lot of MCP wallet cards. I guess total weight of cards released each year is much smaller than one ton. http://timeforchange.org/plastic-bags-and-plast...
- to be greener you should emits less CO2 not more! How after seeing those number can you say are going greener?
- oh and you are keeping paper certs which aren't greener than wallet cards. Yeah that is strange when you first hear it but plastic is more eco friendly than paper! Forget about shipping CO2 expenses - you aren't discontinuing it.
4. The way you discontinue benefits and introduce new is arrogant. To get certificate one have invest a lot of time and work. You have said you are discontinuing some benefits just one month before final date. You are making another mess with MCP/MCTS program by dividing people for those who have passed exams to some chosen date. It's not fair to change rules(benefits) during program. It would be fair to change benefits with new certificates, even make price higher. You have said there are surveys - how can you have surveys about something that isn't finished:) I'm really sad that you are devaluating my effort invested into MCP.
Ken Rosen
· 6 months ago
Hi Me,
1) "I am an MCP" means that I hold a Microsoft certification. We don't use it to signify the old "MCP" certification anymore, but rather as an umbrella term for the community. See my post from several months back: http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2008/12/yes-virg...
2) We do indeed have evidence of the value of MCITP. What we don't have much evidence about is that MCITP is *valued*. I agree with you: We haven't done a good job on this front, and it's a great big priority for us over this next year.
3) I understand the point you're making about server consolidation. What you don't know (and I don't either) is whether our solution requires dedicated servers or whether it's running on a virtual server. We have a vendor managing the solution for us, and since they provide this kind of service for many other clients, I strongly suspect that we are just one of several applications running on a server.
4) I understand your point, although if I read it correctly it seems that you would be equally dissatisfied no matter how much notice we gave--that you would prefer that we only do this when introducing new certifications, correct? Incidentally, I think it's a bit misleading to say that we are "discontinuing benefits." We're continuing to provide the exact same benefits--it's just the *form* that's changing. It's sort of like saying that we've discontinued providing documentation with our software, when all we've really done is switch from printed manuals to on-line documentation. I understand and respect that you strongly prefer and place higher value on physical goods--but I think you could also acknowledge and respect that we are indeed still providing certificates and cards in a different form.
me
· 6 months ago
1) http://blogs.msdn.com/trika/archive/2008/01/09/... Trikah have said "Are you a Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP) if you earn a Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS)? Yes, in that you become part of the Microsoft Certified Professional community, with access to the MCP site, benefits (Knowledge Base, etc). No, in that you do not earn a credential called "MCP." "
and "If you fail your first exam (MCP or MCTS), you should still get an MCP ID--but no site access, benefits, etc."
For me that means MCTS aren't MCP and can not say "I am MCP". They can say "I have MCP ID" :) Their MCP status is on a level of someone who have failed exam (MCP ID only). It is too complicated - looks like you have done something without thinking about all consequences.
2) Sounds like you will discontinue MCSE... lol
3) Well you have said that you don't know how many servers you need, but you have said it is greener than plastic How is that possible? :) You are preparing graphics rich service with for almost 2.5 mln people you can't do that without establishing new additional physical servers. Virtual server always ends on physical machine somewhere and you can't put additional virtual machines on a server with high load.
4) I just can not accept fact that you are doing something without thinking about consequences (that is my impression, looks like MCITP/MCTS(!MCP) decision). You have said you will make a survey on autumn about digital wallets cards. What if it fail? Plastic Wallet Cards should be keep till you really know Digital is better. Even better would be an option to pay for it. I've seen this news reported on different ITpros site - there were about 40 comments from MCPs, MCTs, MCPs and MS employees - all negative.
Ken Rosen
· 6 months ago
Hi Me,
First of all, thanks for that last post--it's a lot easier to have a dialogue now. :-)
As far as the whole MCP thing goes, in all honesty (which is my standard mode of operation here): when Trika wrote that, we were pretty uptight about distancing our "new generation" of certifications from our old ones, so we were (IMHO) a little bit too persnickety about terminology. (Note: This is not a slam at Trika at all... she was following our official guidance at the time.) Over time, though, two things became clear:
1) We need a good "umbrella" term for "one who holds a Microsoft certification" and there's never been a better one than "Microsoft Certified Professional."
2) Enough time has passed that even though MCSE still looms large in people's mind, "MCP" no longer seems to associate with a specific credential anymore. So we feel free to "reclaim" it for use in a more generic sense.
In other news:
* No plans to discontinue MCSE (well, we will eventually of course, but nothing imminent to my knowledge)
* The green thing has about run its course here, I think. We contract a vendor to provide the service for us, and I'll see what I can find out about the infrastructure. But I can tell you that there are nowhere near 2.5 million people accessing the site, and certainly not at one time. I doubt that this is a high-demand site, especially over time once the intial curiosity wears off.
* We do a customer satisfaction survey every year, and we take note of and action on anything that appears to be driving down satisfaction from the previous year (although it's been a while since we've seen declines... we've been on an upswing for the past few years). (Side note: I'd love to see additional comments--if you wouldn't mind sending me (or posting here) links to the other sites you've been following)
I just realized that if certificate discontinues it should and probably will disappear from digital wallet card and certs downloads page. There is not such an issue with paper certs and wallet cards.
About MCP, check this comment from trika blog (notice date!)
"Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:09 PM by daveinVA # re: "So, an MCP and an MCTS walk in to a bar..."
Trika, I was wondering if folks who hold MCTS can use the MCP logo as well without the "MCP" credential. The reason why I ask this is I hold just the 70-620 MCTS on Vista and I have access to the MCP logo in the logo builder along with the MCTS logos. Can this logo be used for official publication as we MCTSs are part of the MCP community or is this logo's availabilty just a fluke? The reason why I ask this is that my supervisor thinks I am an MCP even though I tried explaining this old/new exam stuff to him and I am trying to figure out if these differences really are apples to apples or apples to oranges."
People are confused with this. In my opinion Digital wallet cards will increase amount of confusion among "Bosses" and HR people.
Does it mean MCTS people will get MCP "credential"/ certificate for download/orded? If not then for me it looks Trika explanation is still right. Afaik MCTS have access to MCP logo only. You should make things as clear as possible somewhere on MSL learning site.
Ricardo Santos
· 6 months ago
me, we can see that you care! A lot! That's great. We need people like you, that stand for what they think is best or right. The fact that you are able to show your strong opinions about all this just goes to show that MCPs, no matter what definition you apply, are committed and active people. Therefore, valuable to Microsoft and their peers.
But let me give you an honest opinion, from an oldie MCP/MCSE (way back to 1997), European (the reference to a polish site leads me to believe you might be from Europe) and someone that also doubts a lot of the "green" effect on this initiative (no doubts about the dollar green, though. MS is saving some bucks going digital).
We need to evolve and adapt! I couldn't be more proud of my old NT4 MCSE + Internet certification, but it no longer represents a recognizable market advantage, less alone a professional one. I'm on my way of completing the final stage to have all these new credentials on my transcript, as they better represent the work I’m doing these days. That means I already have a lot of MCTS on it, a few MCITPs coming up ... and I must say it's not as clear and straightforward has previously, but it’s not bad or unusable either. Nor will the Digital ID card. We have been and are being provided with a more than reasonable chance to both collaborate and drive the MCP programme and community forward, but it’s still Microsofts’ IP. And the programmes’ perks, benefits and overall “look and feel” of it are important, but they do not define it. I don’t believe anybody goes the MCP path just to carry a wallet card ! And I guess nobody will stop being one just because it’s no longer available! Or because it disagrees with the “green” marketing attached to this change.
My point? I hope to see you continue as an MCP and MCTS and one day see your Digital ID card, with the words MSITP on it (or maybe Master or Architect, or anything that might come ahead). And you can always print it to a real plastic card and stuff it in your wallet … with a shiny green background on the back
P.S – sorry about the irony :-P couldn’t help myself. No disrespect intended, just a joke.
me
· 6 months ago
Ricardo check this link and new comments under first "going green" post. Looks like MCPs are getting this news slowly. I wonder why MS haven't mailed everyone about such important change. How about poll on the first page? :) No way I know :(
I bet that less than 1% from 2.5mln MCP community know what change is around the corner. Sad. I'm sure we will see more comments when people will realize it.
BTW Don't know what MSITP, if it was MCITP typo, then I allready have MCITP wallet card and few others :)
Ken Rosen
· 6 months ago
Me: They're getting the news pretty quick. :-)
We just sent out this month's MCP Flash to the entire MCP community, and it has the digital certificate announcement as the top headline (you should have yours in your inbox by now, I hope!)
We linked back to the original post, which is why there's an influx of new comments today.
me
· 6 months ago
Yeah pretty quick... till dead line... just 11 days left...
james
· 6 months ago
Trying to fool? If you have soft copy of certificates than you can print 100s or 1000s (modified/pirated)copy of that. Will it “GOooooinG Greeeen”? Thats why people says MS means Ctrl+Alt+Del=”GOooooinG to Hell”. If realy want “Going Green” think carefully before you…………!
Alice
· 6 months ago
Ricardo: "you can always print it to a real plastic card"
Um, I doubt that 99+% of us can actually print that kind of card without some extremely exorbitant expense, whereas Microsoft has been mass-printing that kind of card for perhaps $0.50 each.
Ricardo Santos
· 6 months ago
Me, it was a typo :-P And yes, there's at least a couple of million MCPs missing on this discussion ... if they show up in next month or so, then we'll know for sure what the majority feels like. And I bet you that if it turns out they want the "non-green" option, MS will find a way to recover it back from the "green bin" in some sort of way (should be interesting to see the green arguments then :-D )
Alice, your are probably right about the added expense. Maybe we're looking at a business oportunity here, hum? Setting up a worldwide print-your-digital-vbc-in-real-plastic kind of thing? The parcell cariers will welcome the business (they have a diferent take on green, it seems). Who knows, maybe we're on to something that might become a wanted service? We could be talking 2 million+ costumers here, with significant predictable growth ...
I guess that's a funny twisted way of helping out MS on going green :-D
Alice
· 6 months ago
Ricardo, you might be on to something! ;) My search only turned up options of printing companies that want you to order a batch of thousands of plastic cards, or buying your own plastic-card printing machine. In addition to MCPs, there's probably other unserved markets who'd have an interest in custom small-quantity plastic cards too. (But as that is unlikely to actually materialize, Microsoft is probably our only hope on this.)
Mike
· 6 months ago
many hearts have been broken with this decision. it's a sad day for MCPs. please answer my question, will wallet card still available if we pay for them? PLEASE don't take them away completely. microsoft certifications wont be the same without it.
Ken Rosen (Microsoft)
· 6 months ago
Mike, no plans to continue manufacturing the wallet cards, sorry.
me
· 6 months ago
Sorry? You were "happy to announce" it.
"Today, I am happy to announce that with accordance with the Microsoft Environmental Initiative, MCP Certificates are going GREEN! "
Marlon
· 5 months ago
i think there are somethings that we should not change. Imagine college graduates getting digital certificate. Universities will just email it to them and they have the option to print how many copies they want. Technology is good but i think not in this aspect. I think they should continue sending welcome kits and certificates. It's cheesy but that's how the way people like it. Do you want people send you a scanned copy of dollars as payment for the exam :) :) (just kidding)
Shujauddin
· 5 months ago
Yes Marlon, if Microsoft will not send my welcome kits, certificates and wallet card, I will no longer be likely to spend for taking course and exams, I can copy past my name and picture and will get certified in few minutes, you know it is totally a corruption, if I take and example of my country it is really required to show up the original certificates and welcome kits and wallet cards for employers, so please open the ordering button for welcome kits and certificates.
Dale
· 5 months ago
So if this isnt run by MS (looks like some company called hawkeye) is it going to be a subscription service? How will they known what cert(s) you've got.
I like my wallet cards, have I used it much? no, gave it to my current employer when I started as verification of my status, and thats been about it. Will I miss it yes. Its a tough one but I dont think there is anything anyone can do to reverse it even if it is a bad idea. MS have decided and thats it. I can always use the MS transcript if verification is required by anyone, and TBH I would just be happy for MS to say, you know what we cant be bothered to make wallet cards any more just use your transcripts! If they just made the transcript page a bit better looking then I'd be happy with that.
Dale
Ken Rosen (Microsoft)
· 5 months ago
Hi Dale,
The site will be operated by Hawkeye, just like our certificates are provided by Arvato, and like our exams are delivered by Prometric.
We typically work with and through partners and vendors on solutions like this, linking our systems to theirs so that your certification data is kept up-to-date.
Not sure what you mean by a subscription service, but if you're asking if there's a fee: no.
krsk
· 5 months ago
Ken, i landed on this forum as i was finding out how i can request for my MCITP wallet card. After reading through most of the submission, I have one request, that you/MS allow those who qualify for their wallet Cards and Certificates to get them as hawkeye completes his project and when its done, then you can switch over to your new plans
I must tell you that the Wallet Card has alot of significance of one's achievement and its all the HR Managers ask for in interviews.(Got a friend who missed a job because he didn't have it when he was asked to show it in an interview with a certain Bank) Give a chance to those who want them to request for them (whether at a fee or as its been) but also tag that fee to the examination fees. Credit, debit, master cards are not so much in use in developing countries like Uganda where i hail from. Please be considerate and know that not all MCPs are from USA and that those who are from developing countries toil so much indeed to achieve to certification. Trust me, with this change very few folks will lose the moral to certify because they will not be much inspiration for them. The wallet card has been an inspiration.
Lastly, i am completing my MCITP requirements this week and would like to know if i will be able to recieve my Certificate and Wallet card. Just being curious because there is no information on the MCP Home since 1 July 09 on that and i have not recieved a reply to my inquiry on that issue that i sent to 1-2 weeks ago to MS If so then, how and where can i request those items because that page is nolonger available on the MCP HOME and this page is also "dead" with no connection.(http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/kits/default.mspx)
I am ok with the Green IT drive but i request you to do it progressively while valuing those resourceful opinions. We can all make the world a better place to live.
Thanks For God and My Country Uganda
AngryGerman
· 1 month ago
@MICROSOFT; Please, give us THE WALLET CARD back!
Shit! VBC! Shit!
what should i pay for it?
Please, please, please!
In the Windows 7 Party Box is nothing to see about Going Green. Marketing fouls.
Ken Rosen
· 5 months ago
Hi krsk, we appreciate the note! Unfortunately, the wallet cards (and the welcome kits they were a part of) are now a thing of the past.
The virtual business cards will be live next month. I realize that means you'll wait an extra couple of weeks for your business card credentials, and I apologize for that. We'll get it launched as quickly as we can, and I hope you'll find it as much of an inspiration (if not more so!) than the physical wallet cards.
DEPOLO
· 5 months ago
it looks nice;but it would have been better if ms could do it itself with the certificate's holder picture, so that all around the world those wallet card 'll look uniform
Peter Trast
· 5 months ago
All my dear fellow MCP's:
Change is hard, I admit, but wouldn't you agree that change is precisely the driving force that allows us to sell our skills to customers and employers? Most of us thrive on delivering solutions based on our abilities to adapt to the ever changing environment that is information technology. If you dislike change so much, in all sincerity I ask you, shouldn't you have in a career less fraught with change, like... I don't know, maybe accounting? ;) I rock the IT world I exist in because I adapt constantly to new technologies ("I luv technolgy, but not as much as you, you see" - Kip) and lesser beings cling to the AS400 in the basement while their salaries stagnate and their upward mobility disappears. Don't fear change! It fills our 401k's and gives us stock options and keeps us from getting bored out of our skulls (I am SO glad NT 4 is history...)
I admit, ownership of my wallet card was a partial deciding factor when up against another potential hire. And I also had my certificates with me. My "opponent" had neither "with him" and was given the opportunity by the prospective employer to produce them the next day, which he did not. I suspect he was not actually certified. BUT, when I asked the employer (after he hired me) what tipped the scales in my favor, he mentioned not only the card and my certificates but said he was especially impressed with the transcript sharing tool which I had just added to my resume, including the ID and password. He called it a virtual extension of my resume. He admitted that he had always been suspicious of certificates and had never seen a wallet card, but that seeing the Microsoft URL in the address bar while viewing my transcript was very reassuring of it's validity.
So, while I covet (yes I do!) a new wallet card (I still have my 8 old ones in the "I love me" book with my certificates, and the latest one in my wallet) for the next MCTS that I will complete in the next 2 weeks, I am willing to see what the newest technology will be like and how I can use it to boost my value in the marketplace (let's make sure it is awesome MS,ok??)
2500 years ago, a smart greek dude, Heraclitus, said, "The only constant is change." I think it is cool to have "old school" certs and cards, and discontinuation of the cards will make the ones we already have more valuable, imho... My students will just have to accept that they came to the game late ;)
In all sincerity, consider the possibilities (good too, not just bad) of these changes.
Happy troubleshooting to all! (and hi to you Ken! See you at TechEd next year? company budget allowing...)
Your friendly neighborhood MCP, MCSA 2000 2003, MCSE 2000 2003, MCDBA SQL 2000, MCTS (X4), MCITP, MCT (and near future MCM?)(only 15 exams so far)
Peter Trast Centriq Training in Kansas City (all: twitter me to grab BBQ lunch when in KC!)
dronzer001
· 4 months ago
Yes i admit Change is Good.......
But Frankly Speaking,I Still think that the old wallet Cards Were Very Good & Ristocrate........ If Possible..Plz Bring the old wallet Card back.....I mean,we can pay for it...........Plzzzzzz for god sake.
Kal2001
· 4 months ago
Well I must I admit I am still in love with the wallet cards. I received my certs today, MCP and MCSA and when I opened, behold the wallet cards were missing. Actually am capable of printing my own certs in vibrant colors so I only ordered the certs so that I get the accompanied wallet cards. I thought though digital certs have been discontinued, but can be ordered, then if I order I would get what I used to get before the change.
I may have misread the mcp email because I got the impression if you pay for postage you get the package of cert and wallet card.
As others are saying, you can't step in the same river twice, the river changes! May be it's for the best, because one does not have to wait. I think employers will eventually identify with the new virtual card because everything needs getting used to. If an employer doubts your credibilty, why not use the mcp sharing too, like the wise man who included an mcp link with password to dare the employer to mistraust him!
So fellow MCPs, it might be for the best, don't tell me you are still crying over the fact that XP may be fading slowly, embrace windows 7, change is INEVITABLE and somewhat painful.
Kal2001
· 4 months ago
By the way this August, on what date will we start using the new virtual business card website?
krsk
· 4 months ago
Hi Ken Rosen,
Surely we need to know, what is really going on as MCPs! Its now August 21 and you can see the message below post here on response to my message. Well first, its a month and i've not recieved my documents (Server 2009) i ordered for at a total of $14.90 USD. I come from Africa and before these changes M$ come up with, we used to get our kits in 5 days upon ordering. Yes 5 days but its now a month after we are paying extra money for those kits. What is happening. Second, we were reliable informed here that August 17, 2009 the Virtual_Business_Cards will be out for us to appreciate! But there is total no news on that issue! Tell us what we are left with and when we should expect to appreciate those VB cards. Cheers
Hi krsk, we appreciate the note! Unfortunately, the wallet cards (and the welcome kits they were a part of) are now a thing of the past.
The virtual business cards will be live next month. I realize that means you’ll wait an extra couple of weeks for your business card credentials, and I apologize for that. We’ll get it launched as quickly as we can, and I hope you’ll find it as much of an inspiration (if not more so!) than the physical wallet cards.
Posted by: Ken Rosen | Jul 14, 2009 at 8:11 am
JD
· 4 months ago
Welp, Summer is coming to an end. VBC's were supposed to be "launchng this Summer!!" Any news on this?
Ok, you can not send "welcome kits" to entry level certifications like MCTS and Classic MCP, but if I am spent large amount of time and mony (exams, books, courses, trevel to test site) to became MCSE and MCITP: Enterprise Admin. I want my reward! I want my respect! I want my recognition! I want my wallet card. Why MCPs before this summer already got wallet cards, and i am late and will newer get it?
Andrew Kwabula
· 3 months ago
The idea is really good. It seems the VBC will not be printer friendly, at least at lauch. It would have been GOOD if they include a printer friendly version because some employers or clients would want to verify someone's certification status without turning on the nearest PC.
Andrew Kwabula
· 3 months ago
The idea is really good. It seems the VBC will not be printer friendly, at least at lauch. It would have been GOOD if they include a printer friendly version because some employers or clients would want to verify someone's certification status without turning on the nearest PC.
Stefan
· 2 months ago
I'want a real wallet card, not a damn Photoshop Image! Come on!
kitkatninja
· 2 months ago
Any update on when the VBC's will be available?
Eric Olson
· 2 months ago
i have not seen any updates posted about this, and was wondering when it was going to be available. i too would gladly volunteer to beta test.
Andrew
· 2 weeks ago
Erwin,
You promised the Virtual card will launch on 08/ Dec / 2009. Did it come to fruition? How do we launch to the sight. I have not seen an email about the same and I have been on the road for a weel so I have not been in touch with current happenings.
Erwin Chan
· 2 weeks ago
Yup - check out the front page of the blog. It's been plastered there for the past few days.
Andrew
· 2 weeks ago
Unfortunately I cannot see anything new by following the link you gave me in an email response. It takes me to the top of the blog but that's it, as I can only see old comments and nothing new.
Is it possible for you to just advise me as to whether the 8th Dec 2009 launch date was honoured and if not how long should MCPs wait for the VBCs?
It's not on the MCP private site because we're giving early access to MCTs and Born to Learn readers, but we're not limiting access. It'll go up there in January.
All Comments
Looks cool when can we beta test it.
Regards
Shivam
would not mind beta testing them.
It wouldn't impress me as a hiring manager.
And keep all the options open, please.
I agree with Peter when he says we need a "no-photo/avatar" option.
It's the digital services part of this VBC that count, and there, I think MS is entitled to set strict usage rules, as currently they exist.
But please, leave the options available. This world needs every MCP: the cheesey, the snobs, the cool, the geeks, whatever!
I'm an MCP & I want my VBC!
Epic fail made by green (as in dollar not ecology).
Me_Probably_Former_MCP: I think we understand your position on this. :-)
I wonder if you MSL will really try to sell it as a green even if other MS web pages says opposite (linked here!). What a fail. Worst than Vista and MCITP.
Ken there are more "trolls" besides me in previous posts with comments about how they see current MSL offer. Maybe someone from MSL should read and answer it.
I understand that several of you aren't happy with this decision, and while I regret that, I also know that with 2.3 million MCPs out there, it's inevitable tht some of you are going to be disappointed by pretty much *any* decision we make.
The challenge for my team is to figure out whether a handful of comments represent a community consensus or the opinions of a vocal, sincere minority.
So far, the feedback we've received does not indicate a consensus, so we'll wait and see what happens over this next year as we continue rolling out our digital benefits and send out our annual satisfaction survey.
I won't attempt to sway your opinion, because you seem pretty decided--but I do hope you'll keep an open mind and review our new virtual business cards (we'd be glad to set you up as a tester, just let us know).
My only request of you is: please extend the courtesy and intellectual honesty of labelling your opinions as opinions rather than fact.
Statements like "it is not position it is a fact..." and "they are making more pollution with this move" are suppositions that you are making based on the absence of data. You can jump to whatever conclusions you like, but for your own credibility I recommend acknowledging when you do so. :-)
I'm surprised you even bother responding to comments like those above. Some people just have issues with successful companies like Microsoft, and those people are always going to take the time to whine about everything Microsoft does. They’re probably only writing comments because you reply. You could try ignoring them to see if they go away :)
It's hard for me to believe that someone would take the time to write if they didn't really care about the specific issue.
I hope the most outspoken critics here will be among the first to evaluate our new virtual business cards!
Wayne - how many people with issues against MS and who 'whine about everything MS does' do you think hold MCP's and care enough to comment? I've certainly made comments that are critical of this.
I think you´re getting somewhere .
Looks suitably professional .
Kudos to you and the team for all your hard work.
2. There are plenty of comments about MCITP value in previous posts (not only by me). You haven't answered to that. I'm sure you have surveys that show how sucessful is MCITP. Maybe that link will lead to some comments from you http://www.google.com/trends?q=mcse%2C+mcitp&am... Google trends shows what real people are looking for. We are comparing here one ITpro Windows Server MCSE cert with 9 MCITP exams.
3. About Green. I've showed you it already few times. No response. I will do it every time when you say MCP/MCTS(!) is going green. The facts are:
- you need at least one physical server (of course you need more to make it reliable and available for almost 2.5 mln community). According to MS "green" calculator (http://www.microsoft.com/environment/greenit/Pr...) one physical server emits about 5 tons of CO2 yearly.
- plastic production emits up to 6 tons of CO2 per one ton of plastic. One ton of plastic is a lot of MCP wallet cards. I guess total weight of cards released each year is much smaller than one ton. http://timeforchange.org/plastic-bags-and-plast...
- to be greener you should emits less CO2 not more! How after seeing those number can you say are going greener?
- oh and you are keeping paper certs which aren't greener than wallet cards. Yeah that is strange when you first hear it but plastic is more eco friendly than paper! Forget about shipping CO2 expenses - you aren't discontinuing it.
4. The way you discontinue benefits and introduce new is arrogant. To get certificate one have invest a lot of time and work. You have said you are discontinuing some benefits just one month before final date. You are making another mess with MCP/MCTS program by dividing people for those who have passed exams to some chosen date. It's not fair to change rules(benefits) during program. It would be fair to change benefits with new certificates, even make price higher. You have said there are surveys - how can you have surveys about something that isn't finished:)
I'm really sad that you are devaluating my effort invested into MCP.
1) "I am an MCP" means that I hold a Microsoft certification. We don't use it to signify the old "MCP" certification anymore, but rather as an umbrella term for the community. See my post from several months back: http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2008/12/yes-virg...
2) We do indeed have evidence of the value of MCITP. What we don't have much evidence about is that MCITP is *valued*. I agree with you: We haven't done a good job on this front, and it's a great big priority for us over this next year.
3) I understand the point you're making about server consolidation. What you don't know (and I don't either) is whether our solution requires dedicated servers or whether it's running on a virtual server. We have a vendor managing the solution for us, and since they provide this kind of service for many other clients, I strongly suspect that we are just one of several applications running on a server.
4) I understand your point, although if I read it correctly it seems that you would be equally dissatisfied no matter how much notice we gave--that you would prefer that we only do this when introducing new certifications, correct? Incidentally, I think it's a bit misleading to say that we are "discontinuing benefits." We're continuing to provide the exact same benefits--it's just the *form* that's changing. It's sort of like saying that we've discontinued providing documentation with our software, when all we've really done is switch from printed manuals to on-line documentation. I understand and respect that you strongly prefer and place higher value on physical goods--but I think you could also acknowledge and respect that we are indeed still providing certificates and cards in a different form.
Yes, in that you become part of the Microsoft Certified Professional community, with access to the MCP site, benefits (Knowledge Base, etc).
No, in that you do not earn a credential called "MCP." "
and "If you fail your first exam (MCP or MCTS), you should still get an MCP ID--but no site access, benefits, etc."
For me that means MCTS aren't MCP and can not say "I am MCP". They can say "I have MCP ID" :) Their MCP status is on a level of someone who have failed exam (MCP ID only). It is too complicated - looks like you have done something without thinking about all consequences.
2) Sounds like you will discontinue MCSE... lol
3) Well you have said that you don't know how many servers you need, but you have said it is greener than plastic How is that possible? :) You are preparing graphics rich service with for almost 2.5 mln people you can't do that without establishing new additional physical servers. Virtual server always ends on physical machine somewhere and you can't put additional virtual machines on a server with high load.
4) I just can not accept fact that you are doing something without thinking about consequences (that is my impression, looks like MCITP/MCTS(!MCP) decision). You have said you will make a survey on autumn about digital wallets cards. What if it fail? Plastic Wallet Cards should be keep till you really know Digital is better. Even better would be an option to pay for it. I've seen this news reported on different ITpros site - there were about 40 comments from MCPs, MCTs, MCPs and MS employees - all negative.
First of all, thanks for that last post--it's a lot easier to have a dialogue now. :-)
As far as the whole MCP thing goes, in all honesty (which is my standard mode of operation here): when Trika wrote that, we were pretty uptight about distancing our "new generation" of certifications from our old ones, so we were (IMHO) a little bit too persnickety about terminology. (Note: This is not a slam at Trika at all... she was following our official guidance at the time.) Over time, though, two things became clear:
1) We need a good "umbrella" term for "one who holds a Microsoft certification" and there's never been a better one than "Microsoft Certified Professional."
2) Enough time has passed that even though MCSE still looms large in people's mind, "MCP" no longer seems to associate with a specific credential anymore. So we feel free to "reclaim" it for use in a more generic sense.
In other news:
* No plans to discontinue MCSE (well, we will eventually of course, but nothing imminent to my knowledge)
* The green thing has about run its course here, I think. We contract a vendor to provide the service for us, and I'll see what I can find out about the infrastructure. But I can tell you that there are nowhere near 2.5 million people accessing the site, and certainly not at one time. I doubt that this is a high-demand site, especially over time once the intial curiosity wears off.
* We do a customer satisfaction survey every year, and we take note of and action on anything that appears to be driving down satisfaction from the previous year (although it's been a while since we've seen declines... we've been on an upswing for the past few years). (Side note: I'd love to see additional comments--if you wouldn't mind sending me (or posting here) links to the other sites you've been following)
thanks!
I just realized that if certificate discontinues it should and probably will disappear from digital wallet card and certs downloads page. There is not such an issue with paper certs and wallet cards.
About MCP, check this comment from trika blog (notice date!)
"Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:09 PM by daveinVA
# re: "So, an MCP and an MCTS walk in to a bar..."
Trika, I was wondering if folks who hold MCTS can use the MCP logo as well without the "MCP" credential. The reason why I ask this is I hold just the 70-620 MCTS on Vista and I have access to the MCP logo in the logo builder along with the MCTS logos. Can this logo be used for official publication as we MCTSs are part of the MCP community or is this logo's availabilty just a fluke? The reason why I ask this is that my supervisor thinks I am an MCP even though I tried explaining this old/new exam stuff to him and I am trying to figure out if these differences really are apples to apples or apples to oranges."
People are confused with this. In my opinion Digital wallet cards will increase amount of confusion among "Bosses" and HR people.
Does it mean MCTS people will get MCP "credential"/ certificate for download/orded? If not then for me it looks Trika explanation is still right. Afaik MCTS have access to MCP logo only. You should make things as clear as possible somewhere on MSL learning site.
That's great. We need people like you, that stand for what they think is best or right.
The fact that you are able to show your strong opinions about all this just goes to show that MCPs, no matter what definition you apply, are committed and active people. Therefore, valuable to Microsoft and their peers.
But let me give you an honest opinion, from an oldie MCP/MCSE (way back to 1997), European (the reference to a polish site leads me to believe you might be from Europe) and someone that also doubts a lot of the "green" effect on this initiative (no doubts about the dollar green, though. MS is saving some bucks going digital).
We need to evolve and adapt! I couldn't be more proud of my old NT4 MCSE + Internet certification, but it no longer represents a recognizable market advantage, less alone a professional one.
I'm on my way of completing the final stage to have all these new credentials on my transcript, as they better represent the work I’m doing these days. That means I already have a lot of MCTS on it, a few MCITPs coming up ... and I must say it's not as clear and straightforward has previously, but it’s not bad or unusable either. Nor will the Digital ID card.
We have been and are being provided with a more than reasonable chance to both collaborate and drive the MCP programme and community forward, but it’s still Microsofts’ IP. And the programmes’ perks, benefits and overall “look and feel” of it are important, but they do not define it.
I don’t believe anybody goes the MCP path just to carry a wallet card ! And I guess nobody will stop being one just because it’s no longer available! Or because it disagrees with the “green” marketing attached to this change.
My point? I hope to see you continue as an MCP and MCTS and one day see your Digital ID card, with the words MSITP on it (or maybe Master or Architect, or anything that might come ahead).
And you can always print it to a real plastic card and stuff it in your wallet … with a shiny green background on the back
P.S – sorry about the irony :-P couldn’t help myself. No disrespect intended, just a joke.
http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/06/going-gr...
I bet that less than 1% from 2.5mln MCP community know what change is around the corner. Sad. I'm sure we will see more comments when people will realize it.
BTW Don't know what MSITP, if it was MCITP typo, then I allready have MCITP wallet card and few others :)
We just sent out this month's MCP Flash to the entire MCP community, and it has the digital certificate announcement as the top headline (you should have yours in your inbox by now, I hope!)
We linked back to the original post, which is why there's an influx of new comments today.
If realy want “Going Green” think carefully before you…………!
Um, I doubt that 99+% of us can actually print that kind of card without some extremely exorbitant expense, whereas Microsoft has been mass-printing that kind of card for perhaps $0.50 each.
And yes, there's at least a couple of million MCPs missing on this discussion ... if they show up in next month or so, then we'll know for sure what the majority feels like. And I bet you that if it turns out they want the "non-green" option, MS will find a way to recover it back from the "green bin" in some sort of way (should be interesting to see the green arguments then :-D )
Alice, your are probably right about the added expense.
Maybe we're looking at a business oportunity here, hum? Setting up a worldwide print-your-digital-vbc-in-real-plastic kind of thing? The parcell cariers will welcome the business (they have a diferent take on green, it seems). Who knows, maybe we're on to something that might become a wanted service? We could be talking 2 million+ costumers here, with significant predictable growth ...
I guess that's a funny twisted way of helping out MS on going green :-D
please answer my question, will wallet card still available if we pay for them? PLEASE don't take them away completely. microsoft certifications wont be the same without it.
"Today, I am happy to announce that with accordance with the Microsoft Environmental Initiative, MCP Certificates are going GREEN! "
Do you want people send you a scanned copy of dollars as payment for the exam :) :) (just kidding)
I like my wallet cards, have I used it much? no, gave it to my current employer when I started as verification of my status, and thats been about it. Will I miss it yes. Its a tough one but I dont think there is anything anyone can do to reverse it even if it is a bad idea. MS have decided and thats it.
I can always use the MS transcript if verification is required by anyone, and TBH I would just be happy for MS to say, you know what we cant be bothered to make wallet cards any more just use your transcripts! If they just made the transcript page a bit better looking then I'd be happy with that.
Dale
The site will be operated by Hawkeye, just like our certificates are provided by Arvato, and like our exams are delivered by Prometric.
We typically work with and through partners and vendors on solutions like this, linking our systems to theirs so that your certification data is kept up-to-date.
Not sure what you mean by a subscription service, but if you're asking if there's a fee: no.
After reading through most of the submission, I have one request, that you/MS allow those who qualify for their wallet Cards and Certificates to get them as hawkeye completes his project and when its done, then you can switch over to your new plans
I must tell you that the Wallet Card has alot of significance of one's achievement and its all the HR Managers ask for in interviews.(Got a friend who missed a job because he didn't have it when he was asked to show it in an interview with a certain Bank) Give a chance to those who want them to request for them (whether at a fee or as its been) but also tag that fee to the examination fees. Credit, debit, master cards are not so much in use in developing countries like Uganda where i hail from.
Please be considerate and know that not all MCPs are from USA and that those who are from developing countries toil so much indeed to achieve to certification.
Trust me, with this change very few folks will lose the moral to certify because they will not be much inspiration for them. The wallet card has been an inspiration.
Lastly, i am completing my MCITP requirements this week and would like to know if i will be able to recieve my Certificate and Wallet card. Just being curious because there is no information on the MCP Home since 1 July 09 on that and i have not recieved a reply to my inquiry on that issue that i sent to 1-2 weeks ago to MS
If so then, how and where can i request those items because that page is nolonger available on the MCP HOME and this page is also "dead" with no connection.(http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/kits/default.mspx)
I am ok with the Green IT drive but i request you to do it progressively while valuing those resourceful opinions. We can all make the world a better place to live.
Thanks
For God and My Country Uganda
Shit! VBC! Shit!
what should i pay for it?
Please, please, please!
In the Windows 7 Party Box is nothing to see about Going Green. Marketing fouls.
The virtual business cards will be live next month. I realize that means you'll wait an extra couple of weeks for your business card credentials, and I apologize for that. We'll get it launched as quickly as we can, and I hope you'll find it as much of an inspiration (if not more so!) than the physical wallet cards.
Change is hard, I admit, but wouldn't you agree that change is precisely the driving force that allows us to sell our skills to customers and employers? Most of us thrive on delivering solutions based on our abilities to adapt to the ever changing environment that is information technology. If you dislike change so much, in all sincerity I ask you, shouldn't you have in a career less fraught with change, like... I don't know, maybe accounting? ;) I rock the IT world I exist in because I adapt constantly to new technologies ("I luv technolgy, but not as much as you, you see" - Kip) and lesser beings cling to the AS400 in the basement while their salaries stagnate and their upward mobility disappears. Don't fear change! It fills our 401k's and gives us stock options and keeps us from getting bored out of our skulls (I am SO glad NT 4 is history...)
I admit, ownership of my wallet card was a partial deciding factor when up against another potential hire. And I also had my certificates with me. My "opponent" had neither "with him" and was given the opportunity by the prospective employer to produce them the next day, which he did not. I suspect he was not actually certified. BUT, when I asked the employer (after he hired me) what tipped the scales in my favor, he mentioned not only the card and my certificates but said he was especially impressed with the transcript sharing tool which I had just added to my resume, including the ID and password. He called it a virtual extension of my resume. He admitted that he had always been suspicious of certificates and had never seen a wallet card, but that seeing the Microsoft URL in the address bar while viewing my transcript was very reassuring of it's validity.
So, while I covet (yes I do!) a new wallet card (I still have my 8 old ones in the "I love me" book with my certificates, and the latest one in my wallet) for the next MCTS that I will complete in the next 2 weeks, I am willing to see what the newest technology will be like and how I can use it to boost my value in the marketplace (let's make sure it is awesome MS,ok??)
2500 years ago, a smart greek dude, Heraclitus, said, "The only constant is change." I think it is cool to have "old school" certs and cards, and discontinuation of the cards will make the ones we already have more valuable, imho...
My students will just have to accept that they came to the game late ;)
In all sincerity, consider the possibilities (good too, not just bad) of these changes.
Happy troubleshooting to all! (and hi to you Ken! See you at TechEd next year? company budget allowing...)
Your friendly neighborhood MCP, MCSA 2000 2003, MCSE 2000 2003, MCDBA SQL 2000, MCTS (X4), MCITP, MCT (and near future MCM?)(only 15 exams so far)
Peter Trast
Centriq Training in Kansas City
(all: twitter me to grab BBQ lunch when in KC!)
But Frankly Speaking,I Still think
that the old wallet Cards Were Very Good & Ristocrate........
If Possible..Plz Bring the old wallet Card back.....I mean,we can pay for it...........Plzzzzzz for god sake.
Actually am capable of printing my own certs in vibrant colors so I only ordered the certs so that I get the accompanied wallet cards. I thought though digital certs have been discontinued, but can be ordered, then if I order I would get what I used to get before the change.
I may have misread the mcp email because I got the impression if you pay for postage you get the package of cert and wallet card.
As others are saying, you can't step in the same river twice, the river changes! May be it's for the best, because one does not have to wait. I think employers will eventually identify with the new virtual card because everything needs getting used to. If an employer doubts your credibilty, why not use the mcp sharing too, like the wise man who included an mcp link with password to dare the employer to mistraust him!
So fellow MCPs, it might be for the best, don't tell me you are still crying over the fact that XP may be fading slowly, embrace windows 7, change is INEVITABLE and somewhat painful.
Surely we need to know, what is really going on as MCPs! Its now August 21 and you can see the message below post here on response to my message.
Well first, its a month and i've not recieved my documents (Server 2009) i ordered for at a total of $14.90 USD. I come from Africa and before these changes M$ come up with, we used to get our kits in 5 days upon ordering. Yes 5 days but its now a month after we are paying extra money for those kits. What is happening.
Second, we were reliable informed here that August 17, 2009 the Virtual_Business_Cards will be out for us to appreciate! But there is total no news on that issue! Tell us what we are left with and when we should expect to appreciate those VB cards.
Cheers
Hi krsk, we appreciate the note! Unfortunately, the wallet cards (and the welcome kits they were a part of) are now a thing of the past.
The virtual business cards will be live next month. I realize that means you’ll wait an extra couple of weeks for your business card credentials, and I apologize for that. We’ll get it launched as quickly as we can, and I hope you’ll find it as much of an inspiration (if not more so!) than the physical wallet cards.
Posted by: Ken Rosen | Jul 14, 2009 at 8:11 am
You promised the Virtual card will launch on 08/ Dec / 2009. Did it come to fruition? How do we launch to the sight. I have not seen an email about the same and I have been on the road for a weel so I have not been in touch with current happenings.
Is it possible for you to just advise me as to whether the 8th Dec 2009 launch date was honoured and if not how long should MCPs wait for the VBCs?
It's not on the MCP private site because we're giving early access to MCTs and Born to Learn readers, but we're not limiting access. It'll go up there in January.