Born to Learn - Latest Comments in Pursuing a Certification

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Kevin — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:40:01 -0000

Rob,

Good point. It was suggested about 10 months ago (by Trika, I believe) that there would be two more MCITP-level certifications, one around "Operations Management" (System Center related) and one around "Virtualization" (presumably Hyper-V, SCVMM, App-V, TS, etc related). I know that there are currently MCTS exams for Hyper-V, SCVMM, and MDOP (which includes App-V). TS is covered in the MCTS: Application Deployment for Server 2008 cert. But it seems like you might want to draw those out separately.

One thing about it that may not work is that the Virtualization people at Microsoft aren't pushing for Hyper-V as a separate technology (at least they weren't when we talked about it 6 months ago). They were taking the stance that virtualization is built into Windows 2008 and is just another feature of the OS. While it may be new and different today, in the near future it's going to just be considered another feature like failover clustering and server admins will just know it. I think that makes a lot of sense when you consider what other OS vendors are doing with their virtualization products (Sun, IBM, RedHat, etc). Citrix and VMware are obviously taking a different tack since they don't have operating systems to integrate virtualization into, though it's interesting that they've started trying to reframe the discussion around "data center operating systems," presumably because they don't have a full-fledged server OS.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Rob Hagman — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:27:11 -0000

VMWare: VCP and VCDX

Citrix: CCA: Xenserver and CCEE: Virtualization.

Microsoft MCTS: Windows Server Virtualization, Configuration and MCITP: ???

A certification that would be of value and I think is currently absent from the Microsoft offerings is a MCITP level (And maybe even MCM) certification in virtualization planning and solution design.

Not just for the sake of having a certificate, but also for the loads of information on the subject that comes with it in the form of learning materials (Courses etc.)

Rob.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Kevin — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:04:38 -0000

One other thought...I once had an authorization/voucher from attending an event in Redmond that allowed me to purchase $125 or $150 worth of goods from the Microsoft company store. I still had to pay for the goods, but I got them at the (much reduced) employee prices. Spending $100 at the company store was like spending $500 retail. Something like that might be a nice bonus/incentive. I like a lot of the stuff that's available from the MCP eStore, but most of that is around marketing. It's great to have MCSE/MCITP shirts and pens, but basically it's like being a walking billboard. It might be nice to be able to purchase some things that are a little more functional from an IT perspective.

I'm also a big fan of the simulation/lab exams. There certainly needs to be some theory in the exams, but there needs to be a lot more practical material as well.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Ricardo Santos — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:47:03 -0000

Sarah, on other cert programs:

HP's certifications, although a bit of instable over the years, have been good on the job side of things. And it's valuable for those companies that are HP Partners.
It’s not too far from Microsoft’s programme, but the benefits are not as good.
I was also an IBM cert for a few years, but can't really say it earned me anything worth the effort.
I haven't taken the time on Cisco yet ( not much into anything below layer 3 :-D ), but I do have a lot of former colleagues that have CCNE certs, and they get both a lot of respect and a lot of cash for them.
I’m pretty sure it has to do with the fact that those exams are lab based … and really hard. One HAS to know.

That’s why I believe so much in the 83’s exam series as a way to give industry credit back to MCPs.

(let’s get it started in here, let’s get it started in here ;-) )

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Tammie King — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:02:56 -0000

I think there has to be a reward other than, you can e-mail your cert to hiring managers. What if you aren't taking the certifications to get a new job?
To obtain your MCITP: Enterprise Admin, you need to spend $750 on the exams (Saying you pass them on the 1st attempt or with a free 2nd shot)
What physical benefit do you get from all of your hard work and the $750?

Maybe issue wallet cards only on the first exam at the PRO level would be a nice touch. I understand the need for the digital certificates, I just don't see how to sell the benefit of the certification to someone not currently looking for a job. Except for bragging rights and knowing you can do it by proving your skills. Some people are motivated by wanting to get the plastic card that all of their peers have....

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Sarah Grant — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:58:24 -0000

Thank you all for the suggestions. MCP's are a great and valuable set of people all who, in theory, like the products from Microsoft. I have been working on how to allow TechNet Plus into the program - so happy on the right track there.

The naming convention is in review always... I enjoy "MCP" as it brings it back down to the lowest common denominator. It is the community. Talk about the community so not to be unjustly complicate it BEFORE a hiring manager truly understands the credentials. I could go on & on around this. (next post?)

I am also thinking more incorporation with MCT, MVP, and MSPP...

As a follow up-- are there other cert programs that you are a part of that have a been valuable?

(and, let's get it started right. Let's get it started hah! ;-) )

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Peter — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:38:57 -0000

I agree with Ricardo and Kevin. Those are all good ideas.

MCPs are the best people to push for using MS products in their companies or customers so they should have access to all the resources they need to help promote the use of MS products.

It becomes a symbiotic system; MCPs promote MS products, there are more MS products in use, making certification on them more valuable.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Kevin — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:23:11 -0000

Didn't we do this last year?

Things that I think make MCP more valuable:

1. Free/discounted access to TehNet Plus. I think this should be tiered, where people who only have more elementary certs (70-270, 70-620, etc) get a slight discount, but where people who have more advanced certs MCSE, MCITP, etc get deeper discounts or even free access. This could be replaced by giving free NFR copies of the products that we are certified in since it's very similar.

2. Better name recognition with HR/hiring managers. I work for a consulting company that is also a Microsoft managed partner, and our recruiting staff was still running ads for people with MCSA/MCSE skills on 2003 and 2008. I literally told them just yesterday about the MCITP. The sad thing about this is that the technical side of the house knows about the new cert names because we are required to have them to earn partner competencies.

As far as how to get the better recognition, I'm not sure. I almost feel like there needs to be some sort of advertising that is targeted at HR/IT management. I"m sure there's some magazine/former magazine now webzine that they all read.

3. Early-bird notice for the beta exams would be great. I managed to squeeze into the Win7 beta, but not without some difficulty. I'm sure that part of the beta process is going to need a group of non-MCPs so that you can gauge performance of people who are new to MCP exams, but I think that there should certainly be a percentage of beta seats reserved for MCPs.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Ricardo Santos — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:04:46 -0000

Just a quick note to give a heads up on two very good sugestions:

Shivam's "you're certified on it" software offer/NFR versions

Steven's discounts on MS Press titles

These would be real nice benefits too.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

SRMcEvoy — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:35:59 -0000

Some of the other points are very good. for CompTIA if you join the ITPro, you get 50% of 1 cert a year, and discount on books. It would be nice to have discounts on MSPress books. Particularly when upgrading for my MCSE I have about $1000 worth of books on my shelf behind me.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Shivam Guness — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:33:30 -0000

Hi;
I totally agree with Ricardo and Pedro on their points. But also I think we should put the community back behind the MCP credential. I really like the idea when you had launched the community profiles a while ago. It is this kind of tools that we need to get people really interested in being an MCP. It is important to be able to see your peers, it would increase the networking value of the MCPs. I would also like to see a greater access to the products we are certified in for example if you do a certification in sql2005 you get a copy of SQL 2005 so that you can keep your skills sharp. Also greater discounts on certification exams in either second shot programs or discount on the next version of the certs. Also I often plan and do between 3 to 5 certs in a year and it would be great to have 'bulk' discounts or at least MCP pricing for exams.
Regards
Shivam

Re: Pursuing a Certification

me — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0000

Well I'm not a lawyer but I don't see anything wrong here. MCSE is given by MS based in USA. It is not given by local MS, MCSE credential isn't translated. It is title in English issued in USA so as long as it is legal in USA everything should be fine.

Local law doesn't matter for process that takes place in other country. At least this is how I see it.

Can you link me to reliable source about real legal issues MS had with MCSE name?

BTW I live in such country where "engineer status" is protected and never seen any confusion about MCSE beeing "real engineer".

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Filip — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:52:38 -0000

me,

if you would have followed the change of the tracks from MCSE to MCITP you would have known why they are going for those names now.

In some countries you can only give the engineer status to someone that actually went to univerisity and earned it there.
Microsoft is not allowed to hand out the engineer status to people that comply with the needs of receiving this normally.

So due to legal issues they had to change it.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

me — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:20:37 -0000

I see that even MS employees from MCP program use old name for new credentials. AFAIK to become MCP one has to pass old MCP exam at least in a credential sense. Passing MCTS as a first exam gives MCP number and "MCP community" access. So in a strict sense MCTS people aren't MCPs. Trikah explained it on her blog.

"Are you a Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP) if you earn a Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS)?

Yes, in that you become part of the Microsoft Certified Professional community, with access to the MCP site, benefits (Knowledge Base, etc).
No, in that you do not earn a credential called "MCP."
"

Mess is made by stupid MS MCP Team innovation. I would welcome back old naming convention. It is commonly used by HR and MCP MS Team.

Let be honest MCTS/MCITP failed on market. It is not recognized. How could you dump such valuable names like MCSA/MCSE/MCDBA etc?

So far one of the best ways for advertising MCP program are printed certs and especially wallet cards. Please keep both. I understand it might be hard with current economy state, but all I am begging is option to pay for it.

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Pedro — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:17:59 -0000

Hello

1-I think point 5 from Ricardos Post is very relevant , it was very hard to get a seat in 71-680

2-Some way to get free exam vouchers would be great

3-Some sort of benefits regarding Technet Plus and MSDN acess would be good also

4 -Gradually changing some key exams towards simulations based exams like 83-640 would go far in helping end "paper" MCPs , making certain that the MCP has some hands on experience with the software.

I am an MCP and thats my say

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Duelund — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:03:35 -0000

In my opnion MCP is not rated high. It only requires one eaxam to become MCP. It is my experience that MCSE is rated a lot higher (and should be) and is also acknowledged by companies (I'm afraid that MCITP will be confused with MCP by non-technical people, because of the name).

There are no special valuable/benefits for MCSE/MCITP's, maybe that should be considered ?

I'm MCP (and MCSE, working on MCITP).

Re: Pursuing a Certification

Ricardo Santos — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 04:49:29 -0000

Hi Sarah. Let's get it started in here :-D

0) Mandatory Performance-based exams for most certifications, specially the higher ones (that alone will bring credibility back to the MCP brand and yes - I believe this IS a benefit)

1) An Worldwide MCP contest with fully paid for Microsoft Certified Master certification for prizes (the winners pick the track of their choosing)

2) A free Technet Plus Direct subscription for every top certification achiever (any certification that requires 3 or more exams)

3) One free exam voucher for every 5 successfully passed MCP exams

4) Significant discounts (30%>) on exam vouchers pack purchase (3+ packs)

5) MCPs early-bird warning and special registration period (1 day advance over general availability) for beta exams (ever since the blog got traction, it has become increasingly difficult to grab a seat on one – MCPs should be a preferred target for beta exams)

I’m an MCP & I said it