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a pen costs 3 dollar , but it costs 53 dollar including handling & shipping. I prefer the old system
So MSL decides to change the names of all of our certs, effectively rendering them useless in the marketplace and continues to cut our benefits to virtually nothing. Remind me why we should bother?
One thing to mention is that if this was just a cost savings measure, I KNOW that the choice to make digital downloads available would be different. As in - we wouldn't have digital downloads. It would of been more cost effective just to say - we will now charge for any printed material. Instead, we are going digital. We are opening up areas that were not available from a printed standpoint. The ability to use certificates within email, Virtual Business Cards that will integrate into Professional and Social networking platforms. We are trying to get the coolness back from here is my piece of paper to the instant world of sending a link to a hiring manager or client to show them immediately that you are an MCP. We are still making the paper option available AND we now making the digital option available too.
I hope that you will find them useful and you will be open to seeing opportunity for how this will be a benefit for MCP's.
Wallet cards are no longer produced and cannot be ordered with the certificate. We're looking into ways we can bring back the wallet card, but at present there is no option.
Yes, you will be able to. I know that this was a requirement as seems silly not to have multiple certificates not shipped all together.
Also, working for a *very big* MS IT Academy, I've found that the MCP wallet card and certificate have inspired our past students to work hard and they get a real sense of achievement when they get to carry and show off their new wallet card.
As we're holding MCP exams next month, I can see a vast number of students disappointed and unhappy that they will not able to get something that we had told them they should get when they take and pass MCP exams.
Tomorrow should be fun trying to explain this...
I will achieve my mcse & mcitp certifications on July 30th. Will I still be able to order my welcome kit including the wallet cards? I don`t care if I have to pay the shipping costs, but I really want to have my wallet card. Regards
did you inform the cutomers and employers about the new enviromental impact ? It could be pretty funny to show the "Adobe selfmade-style-card " to an old school IT Professional in any interview.
just my two cents
I'm not saying that I don't like having the option to download them, I'm just sick and tired of having my benefits reduced.
Also, we are offering the certificates for a fee as there could be cases where it is not feasible for someone to print it themselves if absolutely needed. The overall green of this is not just the certificate, but the envelope, the plastic wrap, the misc marketing papers that were included in each kit. Most, if not all of it, went straight in the trash > landfills.
Overall, this is a huge community with different opinions and needs. I see this as an opportunity to offer something bigger and not increase (actually decrease) the environmental impact.
I hope this helps - and please feel free to share you email address & I will email you directly.
Some questions that don't stop to bother me:
1) Since there won't be paper certificates, wallet cards and shipping cost for MS, this saving will be discounted on the exam cost? Pay US$ 80,00 without the kit is just too expensive.
2) Why this decision was taken without a survey with the MCPs? Many times we receive e-mails with surveys to improve the MCP program. I think that this is a really essential topic, and as you can see, the reception is being really bad. I suggest to make a survey, you we can decide what its best for us.
3) I think that numbers are better than words. I know that the saving will be big, but how big? Since we have today 2,402,263 (April), and many of these professionals already has their certificates, I thing that Microsoft certifies 5,000 to 20,000 professionals by month worldwide. And not all exams gives certificates (for example, to achieve a MCITP, you need to pass two exams; passing in only one won't generate a certificate for that). The amount of paper used is insignificant, compared to companies like banks, hotels, and even Microsoft itself.
Well, I understand that your intention was good, but this will spread a bad reputation to this program. Remember that these type of actions must return a value for the customers. It must be an exchange operation.
For example, virtualization provides Green IT because you save cost on energy and hardware, in EXCHANGE of maintaining the same environment.
Banks offers to clients the option of not send the account history by mail, providing it online. In EXCHANGE, the maintainance cost of the account is reduced.
You're removing benefits from your customers. What we will receive in exchange? Discount? Ebooks? Vouchers?
Regards.
I've though you got your lesson with Vista, looks I was wrong.
The funny thing might be that costs cutting might end with less income from less people making certs.
I can't figure it out - all of the people that I've met from Microsoft Learning seem so cool, but these decisions seem to be coming from people who really hate their customers.
Micro$oft saves money in salaries, web hosting, producing crapy courseware, etc
Micro$oft is more green by being able to close down a building saving energy.
No, wait a minute - that's not right. This is just a way for MSL to save money dressesd up to look good.
If MSL really wanted to go green, they'd have left the diesel guzzling bus in the barn, and walked or cycled to TechEd
And how much exactly is that "shipping & handling fee" going to be, at least in the US?
That being said, these are my feelings on the "reductions" in the MCP program tangibles. I would love to hear some constructive comments. Seriously!
1. Wallet cards. Aside from the "Hey, cool!" moment when you get your first one, what practical use do they serve? I've never shown mine to anyone. Are some employers asking for them? Can you get a discount or a free gift by showing your card at an MS or other IT-related event? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't see the value especially when the latest round of cards only display the credential "blanket" (MCTS logo, not MCTS: Whatever-You're-Certified-In).
2. Digital ID cards. I haven't seen the finished product, but I imagine it to be in the spirit of the Xbox Live Gamercards that you see people post on their blogs, sites, etc. So it sounds like an interesting idea, but like many of you here I'd rather see a more professional icon/logo/avatar. A "Microsoft Certified" logo would probably be more than sufficient and the most appropriate, yes?
3. Prometric vs Vue, since TickedOff brough it up and this was a HUGE conversation back in the Era of Trika. I've tested with both of them. I preferred Vue. However, having recently tested with Prometric again, I can say that they've gotten far better over the years. Yes, their website still needs work. Yes, their test engine is slower than molasses. Yes, you may not be near a Prometric center while a Vue place is around the corner (and that SUCKS). On the flip side, I've never had a Prometric exam crash, yet I've had Vue exams bomb out on me more than once. Maybe I'm just lucky. In any event, having one test provider make sense going forward especially as we move to more and more lab 83-640 style exams. Everyone seems to forget that other test vendors are aligned with only one delivery provider. Cisco went Vue-only around the time MS went Prometric-only. Apple, Oracle, Juniper and others have always been Prometric-only as far as I know. Likewise, VMware went Vue-only and RIM went Prometric-only from the start of their programs.
4. Printed certificates. Yes, I like the printed certifcate as much as most of you do. Yes, I think that a printed certificate is a great capstone to a huge investment of time, training, and money from a candidate. Yes, I agree that this makes the certificates less valuable as they will be printed on everything from dot matrix printers to $20,000 color laser printers that are out of one color of ink (oops). However, I see the cost savings here and agree with Ken that many people will order certificates that are free only because they're free! So if I take a bunch of exams and earn some new credentials, I welcome the opporunity to select the certificates I want and have them sent in one bundle for a small fee. I do have two suggestions for this change, however: (a) Can we please put a combination logo on the certificates (i.e.: MCITP: SA, EA, EMA)? Right now I can generate a certificate, but only with one credential (i.e.: MCITP: SA). It would be nice to use a Logo Builder generated logo to combine credentials and put that on a certificate. (b) Can we please bump up the quality on these certifictes? Yes, they current ones are better than what I can produce on my craptastic HP DeskJet 920c. But I would really like different paperstock and an embossed logo. Combining these two suggestions would be awesome. Also, one more comment with regards to the varying quality of printed certificates as seen by a hiring manager. Your MCP transcript is the final word on what credentials you've earned. Not a wallet card, lapel pin, cool hat from the eStore, or a certificate. This is the same as it is in higher education. You don't verify a degree by asking a candidate to bring in their diploma. You verify it with their transcript, signed and sealed by the Registrar. Hence the Transcript Sharing Tool.
5. Old Gen vs New Gen certifications. This is a bigger problem than wallet cards, paying for paper, and being green. I could have the dates wrong, but I believe it's been over three years since the New Gen certifications were introuduced. Today, everyone is still looking for an MCSE. Six months ago a friend told me his company was looking for "Microsoft Certified" people. I asked him wich certs. "MCSE." (sigh) I was taking 70-647 a few weeks ago and the test center folks asked me if I was taking the exam for my MCSE. The lady who asked me this was standing RIGHT IN FRONT of the MS Learning poster that mapped out the MCSA/MCSE to MCTS/MCITP upgrade scenarios. (sigh) A guy at work is looking to get into the IT and is aspiring to get his (you guessed it) MCSE. (sigh) I realize that the MCSE is still relevant today. My fear is that the New Gen of certifications aren't relevant at all yet as no one in the "real world" seems to know what they are or bother to try and understand them. Part of me feels there needs to be a capstone title between the Professional series and Master. I would love to do the Exchange Master program, so I guess I have to get a larger piggybank, because Master is so expensive and time consuming. Perhaps some type of real lab-based exam? I don't know, I guess it comes down to this: for those of us with multiple MCITP all we have to show for it is a huge logo. In the Old Gen we had the four magic letters of MCSE. I honestly don't know how to turn this one around.
With my luck, I have spent the last hour writing this only to have my post not be uploaded. I'd better copy this into Notepad first. All spelling and grammar mistakes are my own. Cheers everyone.
the MS is green
I like the wallet card, it's cool, but what about the 'charter member' certificates? or is that a thing of the past?
Unfortunately, the company has a very U.S.-centric world-view, regrettably so.
High quality, printed certificates are invaluable - as many pointed out - for different purposes. Now you're telling me (after I've already paid for my MCT renewal) that I'll have to pay for my certificate? And wallet card?
And you're also telling me you're working hard to make certification more valuable, by taking the actual certificate out of the program and making it a paid add-on??
WOW! Looks like you guys totally thought this through!
How about making this digital certificate an opt-in thing?? Let customers (us) decide whether we don't see any value in a printed certificate and opt out of it in favor of a digital one?
If not, you're simply using this environmental-conciousness to actually charge for something you weren't supposed to charge for, and haven't done so in a long long time, nor given any indication of doing so!
Sorry Microsoft I just don’t buy it and you can prove me wrong and I'll eat my hat. I am a big fan of yours but sadly think this is the move.
If it's just for going green then give the exam taker the option of either when they pass (their own choice to be green or not). You still see the need for the paper version or you would offer it all (now with extra charges). Surely the £105 pounds I pay per exam covers this cost already.
Finally I teach students and the pack as a fantastic aid to motive them at the end of a hard five month program. I can’t see how I can hang my digital green certificate on the wall, because if I print it out to show them surly it’s less green than a mass produced one and not as good.
After spending time getting ready for the exams and then the money required for the test itself, it's just nice to get something in the mail for your effort. Being able to print the digital certificate is nice but as others have mentioned it seems that having it as the only option is a little less fulfilling than receiving the printed copy. Another thought - if a MCP's hard copies are lost or destroyed they may have problems printing the digital versions. Some copy shops (still the only way to get a really good copy, imho) refuse to make copies or print professional certificates or diplomas.
I still miss the lapel pins (they made great cube wall pins) and I'm going to miss the wallet cards and hard copy certificates as well. Digital copies are nice, but I don't think it should be left as our only "free" choice after achieving a certification.
Microsoft Environmental Initiative.... hahahaha
Come one... it's for the same reason banks want to send electronic statements instead of paper statements.
Just call it what it is instead of trying to couch it in do-gooderisms. Just tell us it's a cost cutting measure - we'll understand.
Shocking, the exams are expensive enough, whats next, no print out of your score to save the environment?!.
Thanks for lowering the bar
I already have all my certs...but if I hadn't received them...you could take the shipping out of the $1000+ dollars you got for me taking the tests! If the only reason was to eliminate waste...you wouldn't charge those that wanted to get the hard copy. It's obviously not waste if they want it and will keep it.
If this were merely a cost cutting measure, you would reduce services while keeping test fees at the current level.
"Please go ONLINE"
However this is a cost-cutting exercise and has nothing really to do with reducing their carbon footprint. Microsoft make a lot of money out of MCPs through exams, courses and other learning materials. The very least they could do is to issue a free certificate when somebody obtains a new certification.
It is always exciting to see welcome Kit after your efforts and hard work.
I think Microsoft is just trying to save some bucks by cut corners rather going Green.
Payment is obviously expensive for the people living overseas where the currency is not to strong
This act should be the last item on the Microsoft’s list of going green.
This has to do with transferring a cost from you to us, which is unacceptable.
I pay an arm and a leg to keep current and certified. I will not pay any more out of pocket costs.
If this is your official stand, I'll be giving up the Microsoft cert game, moving on to other pastures.
Can you tell that I, like everyone else here, does not like this?
I agree with some of the points, although not all. Exactly I'm very dissapointed with the wallet cards dissapearing. We all really love those cards, those are our identification anyway.
I think is great to have the cards online, to put on a website or whatever, but you should give the opportunity to order them as you will do with certificates. Because we want both ways, the virtual and the real one.
I hope you can think about this and take it into consideration.
Thank you,
Eneko Perez
Now I know that, WHY WINDOWS CRASHES !!!!
Being a charter member for a couple of certifications, I noticed the digital certificates do not reflect this information. .This is a big let down in my books. Where does Microsoft intend to display charter information in the new scheme of things? I am really interested in the answer.
I think that for all the time and effort MCP's spend in getting certified, they atleast deserve a high quality certificate that could be proudly displayed.
How would people feel if after 4 years of college, the University decided to give you a digital certificate instead of the one's you get now?
However, going green is good in respect to the environment. However, is very alerting for candidates.
I guess, Microsoft should consider the whole world not just US/Canada, Europe and few others.
It doesn't make sense to remove the physical certificate for the real life certification you have spent a huge amount of time working towards. It just lowers the value in what you have done.
What's next. You'll pay the same fee but complete the exam at home?
It's expensive enough to sit for the exams why not do as previously suggested by giving people the option of digital or physical.
Gone are the days of hanging up your Microsoft certification next to your university degree's if you have to print them our yourself. How tacky would you feel walking into some other persons office with the same certification you have earned but they have printed it off on a $100 ink jet printer with that lovely zebra look.
Please reconsider
funnier how we MCPs crap on that idea.
if there's anything i know about MS and MSL, it's that they're good at listening to feedback... wait. oh, sorry i was thinking of another company.
yeah, i agree with all of these guys. this sucks and MS and MSL takes us for suckers.
Looking at history, we used to get pin badges (nice decoration for work desk), memebership to Technet, etc.
Now we dont even get cards.
Would this mean that the price of exams will come down?
I am two exams away from MCSE and MCITP.
After I get them, I will stop doing certifications. Cause this will be get all the credentials I can get on my cards.
Not getting MCP hardware removed 99% percent of incentives for doing the exams(the other 1% is for employment for purpose)
We can give feedback all we want, but Microsoft Learning will still do exactly what they want, just like they did when they discontinued the MCSE, and replaced it with a cert that no one wants or is looking for in the job market.
Thanks again for devaluing what we have all worked so hard to support for so many years.
Oh, and by the way, Prometric has been having "technical problems with their registration system" for DAYS! This means that we cannot even REGISTER to take a Microsoft exam, anyway! Bet that decision to go with Prometric as the sole exam provider seems like a GREAT IDEA now, hunh?
"One thing I’ll caution: don’t assume that a string of negative comments on the blog constitutes a bad reception. With over 2 million MCPs out there, any change make is likely to upset some percentage of the community, and we’d likely hear from some of them here. That said—we certainly are watching and listening and absolutely will pay very close attention to our customer satisfaction reports. We’re hoping that you guys will like the digital credentials as you start to use them."
Based on feedback and voting rates of this post I would say that "With over 2 million MCPs out there, any change make is likely to make happy some promille of the community"
Anyway no matter how many of MCPs are frustrated they won't change that decission. They will continue to sell it as green (even if it is not greener!).
HOWEVER:
- the cert manager should have worked this way from the start - was it really that hard for a software giant to code it?
- in no way does that upgrade excuse discontinuing other benefits
- where the frak should I find a printer able to reproduce the original shiny-golden look and feel of the new gen certs from only a PDF/XPS?
- "going green" is utter BS, it's worse than scientology
I'm all for reducing carbon footprint, but you're using it as an excuse to cut costs - which is worse!
I paid for all my exams myself and the wallet card and certificate are THE LEAST i expect in return!
+1 on this...
so with this..
"I paid for all my exams myself and the wallet card and certificate are THE LEAST i expect in return!"
If we will download it and print it ourselves then it will not make any difference from those who scanned certificates and edit it and somehow present it as their own though there are security codes to verify and confirm for the genuine certs or not.
The motive is good but there are some other ways my beloved Microsoft can go green and i hope by not cost cutting the wallet and certs of the well deserve MCP!
Peter C
MCP, MCSA, MCSA Msg, MCSE, MCTS*3, MCITP*2 & MCT
now anyone can do photoshop on their certificate to have one
On the other hand, like everyone else once to cut back on costs, as long the shipping and other costs are very minimal especially shipped outside US. I think it's fair but consider another downturn and added cost to being certified. I lived in southeast asia.
Digital certificates are ok but printing them on your own is not same quality as good as from microsoft.
It is easy to think "Going Green" alternate motives, cutting cost. It is good that Microsoft considered cutting their carbon footprint in the environment. But, I think it has been traditioned that we (certified) expect these wallet cards and printed certificates.
I hope Microsoft would set these additional cost to very minimal not just considering those in US, but to every one who takes your exams to the farthest and remote place.
If these things continue combined with today's economy, and as a result I think the number of taking certifications had greatly reduced as of now, would possible cause even massive reduction. So, I urge Microsoft to plan these measures and benefits carefully considering those outside US.
These measures and other types implement seems or look like to me as MS is fighting against those who HOPE to get better recognition of their skills and knowledge in MS technologies. I hope measures much better than this be implement to support those who are certified.
I also noticed there are some measures to enticed students to take these exams, how about those who are certified??
Another thing, in the MS partner program, the benefit in terms of MS partner points given by say a MCSD is same as MCPD. My question or arguement is what would enticed/encourage companies to support those who are certified in old versions to take exams for new versions in terms of company benefits and those who take them.
These are concerns and opinions expressed by an ordinary and regular MS certified person since 2005 (MCSD, MCAD, MCTS-2.0 and MCPD-2.0), hoping things would change for better.
So, as conclusion, hope MS would considerably reduce these additonal costs to minimal taking considerations those lived in any part of the world. I understand MS steps to reduce cost as I myself also trying to reduce expenses, but hope they consider their clients whether comapnies or ordinary exam takers not all of us have the compensation as those in developed countries like US. Also, hoping all of us (including MS) be able to stay afloat and get passed today's economy.
Another trendy thing of nowaday's "Green" effect that every company can change the concept of being Green by charging more ....so , where is the " Green" or the "Green" become the "Greed" ? ...hahaha
It seems in this case the meaning of "going green" is in dollar notes, not trees.
Not cool at all.
I'm from Sri Lanka. This cannot be accpeted. This is a certificate which resemble our compitence. if it's a digital base will become useless. Anyone can mutate this. Why you, Microsoft, playing with us like this. The other thing is, we have to do exam by paying and again i have to pay to get my certificate? what a damn thing. It'll cost order to here $65.
Who took this decision fool?
Finally, I would like to thanks for those guys, to giving such kind of a support, itergrity and diminish our career.
i think microsoft is trying to go away from its loyality customers day by day.everyone who sits for the exam expects this kit.what is the use of doing exam with paying a high cost,but you dont get atleast a paper certificate.
my final verdict-
ITS HIGH TIME TO MIGRATE TO "JAVA"
Although digital approach seems to be quite useful, but in my personal point of view it is not all the matter of going GREEN!
GREENness had become a plea for charging MCPs more, unfortunately!
Where r u old M$ :(
Cheers,
This is really unfair!
However, there is a way to make it right.
It will be fair if I have a choice: pay reduced fee for digital certificate or pay the same fee as I paid before for paper certificate/wallet card etc.
Are you really going to reduce exam fee?
NEW RULE:
You cannot cut a certification benefit in the name of being green.
Particularly when all your customers know it's simply an effort at SAVING green.
Come on Microsoft - do you really think IT pros are that stupid they wouldn't see through this?
If this is REALLY about going green and saving the planet - here are some suggestions:
- Sell Kindle/PDF versions of your courseware. However, you must pass on the savings to the customer/student. This not only saves the planet, but saves customers money as well.
- Understand that certificates are sacred for a very large cross-section of your customers. As many many folks above have noted, we take pride in our certifications and cannot see it devalued by having the so-called "Photoshop certificates" floating around.
WE TAKE PRIDE IN OUR ACHIVEMENTS AND HARD WORK TO GET A CERTIFICATIONS. PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OUR PRIDE AWAY!
If realy want "Going Green" think carefully before you............!
The current paper certificate and wallet card should not be stopped, if it required any additional shipping charges that should be included in the exam fee.
Whoever, writes the exam waits for this certificate to nock at his/her door step, and this will be a kind of appriciation when one receive this for what they have achieved. However, option for the digital certificate can be included.
I dont get the right color when downloading MCTS certificates the color is an ugly yellow green and not some kind of brown in the real printed ones!!
How do i adjust that?
A good environmental idea.
I am not totally against the idea.
But think about that.Microsoft owner is already making plenty of money.So what about those candidates in under developed countries like Bangladesh,and other parts of the world.They pay for the exam/tuition/technologies fees and now for their certificates.That's not fair.Either reduce exam cost or leave it to the current system.To make me pay for my certificate makes me feel that my certificate is "value-less" i.e. my certificate is not like a "come and go paper".I will keep it for the rest of my life and in a safe place to preserve it.If i were to throw it away, then charging me would be totally correct.
My regards.
But or you reduce prize or you offer a free on-demand shipping of welcome kits.
Otherwise is going GREED.
And you got about 99% negative feedback, so what should you do?
People pay for the certifcate not for the transcript. Not sending the certificate will be a huge blast for Certificiation.
It is clear the decision was made on Money and green is h¡just the perfect excuse.
http://blogs.technet.com/mslcommunity/archive/2...
And to say you do this to going green is a great Shame for me as a Microsoft Partner. You send out worthless papers in big envelopes worldwide and you stop to send certificates to save resources.
That's the end of my exams with you and the next is my last!
Reimund Lube, Germany, MCSE +S, Small Business Specialist, MCITP Server 2008 Enterprise Administrator
And what about if you need to print it? We print a MS certificate on an A4 normal paper? Absurd...
Actually Microsoft Certifications costs a lot (here in Europe, 140 Euro for an exam) and now we've also to pay in order to have a paper certificate?
And someone of you has thinked about the shipping cost if you're outside USA?
You're on the wrong direction... I know that you've to reduce costs, but this not the way to do! The only result you could obtain by doing this is to reduce the value of MS certifications.
Come on Microsoft, don't BS the world, you can be better than that.
This decision is in no way going green, making people themselves print these out produce just as much waste and a poorer quality (which you must keep in mind is representive of your hard working technical representatives and elite unpaid foot soliders in interviews and consultancies - ie the people implementing your products), lets face it, this is nothing more than a cost cutting measure, and really is cutting off the noses of people who still bother with the high cost of certification, despite it's declining value in the market place due to MS's lack of success in stopping braindumpers, I mean just type in the number of any exam and its impossible to find a page with a geniune link as its all braindump sites (try certforums.co.uk or techexams.net for legit sites), MS could easily get these closed down im sure it would take one person working part time to do this (result better techs as they have actually learned the material)!
Instead we get MS (shortsightedly) cutting back on the rewards for the people who work hard to gain certification and do a good job in keeping their products on networks around the globe.
This is poor customer relations.
In closing, can I assume the prices of exams are coming down to compensate for the savings made for the welcome kits which no doubt in reality we paid for?
I'm not going to pay for a certificate, already paid 140,- for the exam!
- spending lot of time to get familiar with the Microsoft technology
- taking exam for 140 EUR (195 $) to prove your microsoft skill and then you don't even get a wallet card and printed certificats from microsoft!
Oh, I forgot. You could get them when you pay for shipping and handling. Not included in the 300$ every certification costs when you learn on your own.
Microsoft should go an other way and honor the efforts every candidat has with a little gift like pencils, caps...
Pascal
It seems to me that we are sharing exactly the same sentiments. Imagine if my university turned back to me and told me "We are deeply sorry but you can't have your degree in paper, we are going green.."
I would definitely go green in seconds. It is nice to go "green" and still offer the same paperwork, by paying for it! So I'm a green company, but if you pay for it, I'm not green.
We live in a world were being acknowledged for your efforts, is a part of our system. One of the reasons that someone would go under the certification scheme, would be just for that piece of paper hanging on their wall. Even so, the whole certification scheme is about being acknowledged. S
o I will be acknowledged by saying that I’m this, or that or the other. Or please visit that website to see my certification, or you can see my certification, I know it looks bad but I was running out of ink when I printed it and so on and so forth.
Green is good, green is nice. Let not hide behind green. It makes green look bad, and us, the company even worst.
Best regards,
IT
I keep all my certificates since my MCP debut at VB6 and I wish to continuing doing so. It's not just a piece of paper, but a recognition token for my study efforts, I can share with my partners, employees and my family too.
You should to share responsability; offer choices and professionals will do their part, as their personal preferences.
You could, for example, to incite MCP professionals to *neutralize* their emissions, inviting them to plant a tree for each certification and sharing a picture. Maybe this is a better way to help the planet.
At bottom line, it's sound like a greed, not a green initiative, as David said.
So instead of playing the environment issue why not be frank and say: "You will have to pay extra fees for shipping and handling to get your certificate!!"
Common .. leave the environment alone .. and focus on more serious matters ..
It seems to me that we are sharing exactly the same sentiments. Imagine if my university turned back to me and told me "We are deeply sorry but you can't have your degree in paper, we are going green.."I would definitely go green in seconds. It is nice to go "green" and still offer the same paperwork, by paying for it! So I'm a green company, but if you pay for it, I'm not green.We live in a world were being acknowledged for your efforts, is a part of our system. One of the reasons that someone would go under the certification scheme, would be just for that piece of paper hanging on their wall. Even so, the whole certification scheme is about being acknowledged. So I will be acknowledged by saying that I’m this, or that or the other. Or please visit that website to see my certification, or you can see my certification, I know it looks bad but I was running out of ink when I printed it and so on and so forth.Green is good, green is nice. Let not hide behind green. It makes green look bad, and us, the company even worst.
Best regards,
Professional printed certificates are often necessary when applying for a job in Austria and can´t be replaced with cheap self-prints.
Also the Action Packs are medialess distributed in the near at the same price. € 190,- shipping costs extra for the same standard as now ist exorbitantly high.
We don´t like that ideas!
The issue is that when those things are posted to you, you feel great and honour that you have not laboured in vain.
Moreover, only few orgnisations (may be in advanced nations) will recognise the digiter whatever while greater percent of them out there will still demand for your hard copy even with original certificate.
So, i suggest that neither the wallet ID card nor the hard copy should be stopped because of colour variation from different printers. People should also decide on their own on what type of format they perfer without paying extra charge.
We have laboured and paid so much in becoming certified and such a token from microsoft should not be seen as a favour. IT IS OUR RIGHT. ALLOW US TO DECIDE.
(NIYI from Nigeria)
Not to mention the money my certification has brought Microsoft indirectly (ie, recommending all those pesky Novell boxes move to NT4, back in 1999; or that Management of Internet + Email and etc could be better managed with ISA + Exchange, rather than the harder to manage Linux option, or the HUGE thin client/Terminal Server Rollout, etc, etc).
No way, it was bad enough when Microsoft stopped the free year of Technet when you got your MSCE (in 2000 or 2001?) and replaced it with a 'discount'; ripping us off for a plastic card and Certificate and calling it green, is really LAME!
And anyway, how can MS claim to be going green anyway? Modern MS Software comes packed in FAR MORE PLASTIC than it ever did! Gone are the nice, Biodegradable Boxes! If you want to go green, why not look at changing your packaging first?!?! Oh hang on, that might affect marketing!
How come Universities (far more strapped for cash and 'thinking green' than MS will ever be) can give their students a student card. Or the Roads and Traffic Departments of many states/countries (who issue many more cards than MS ever will) don't feel the need to 'go green'? (In fact, that would be funny, get your licence and you're responsible for taking your pic with your web cam, then photoshop up your licence! Thats going to work!)
No, Im sure Microsoft would not buy into a scheme where we the IT professionals decided not to pay for exams, because we're 'going green' and dont want to use that nasty 'paper money'...
But if MS was really committed to this, the first thing they would do is STOP producing as many MS Press titles and offer them for free download to any MCP or higher - that would save so much more paper! But in reality, they cant do that, as MSPress generates revenue - cards and certificates don't (directly)...
I dont know, this whole scheme sticks and, as has been said, is obviously nothing more than a cost cutting measure - MS is not 'going green' in any of the area's that have a larger footprint.
Pathetic!
Not looking good, is it!
The honest post at http://blogs.technet.com/mslcommunity/archive/2... that someone pointed out is a breath of fresh (green!) air in comparison.
Preparing and actually making the exam.
So I pay alot of money, spend alot of time.. and what do I get to show for it.. Something I have to print myself? WTF.
Currently I own 20 certifications, including 4x MCITP. Maybe it's time to switch to Citrix certifications and stop getting MS certified altogether..
From now on.. it's learning a bit more about Adobe Photoshop and having every M$ certification I want in less the 5 minutes.
That's cost effective... Thanks M$ when this is how you treat your loyal members, I will stop getting M$ certified!
The arguments were already told:
- Digital certificate looks cheap, you can't really impress employer or anybody else
- To most people digital certificates are not trustworthy enough, verifying their genuinity is a pain
- So we have to order the physical copy, but this is for me as a foreigner outrageously expensive
- I pay pretty hefty amount of money for the exams - why the heck can't I get back an equal value?!
MS Going Greed!
http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/05/welcome-...
That shows how much they care about our planet.
^^^^
Best quote so far!
http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/05/get-on-t...
MCP Exams to take place on etch a sketch, in order to save the enviroment you will have to answer a series of questions (printed on recycled card and pulled from a box to randomise them)using an etch a sketch this will then be marked by the receptist at the test centre and shaken ready for reuse by the next candidate.
This allows enviromental savings with no enviromental impact due to the electricity used during the exams.
Really stupid idea - admit your wrong and whilst your at it give us back our pin badges!
I hope they won't prove that i was wrong.
It looks like most people are against it. It also looks like most people think MSL are just trying to cut costs and are not as interested in the environment as they say they are.
Personally, I am not decided yet. I beleive that a digital certificate would be indespensible in some regards, ie. you could sent it off with your CV & cover letter to prospective employers, etc. Maybe MSL should still sent us the physical certificates and cards as well as digitally.
Regards
I also believ Going Green is a coverup for the real issue. Saving a buck.
You are removing benefits from us and give nothing in exchange.
Ruben Markosyan
Microsoft® Certified Solution Developer for Microsoft .NET
Microsoft® Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS)
Microsoft® Certified Dynamics
Maybe the DMV will let me photoshop my license...or how about a passport? Yea, maybe I can photoshop me one of those while I'm building my MCP certificate.
What the *** are you guys thinking. Being certified is not only about getting education, but it is also a importent piece og paper, when applying for a new job.
It´s vital to prove the accuried sills, with a valid document, and not a easy to fake electronic home printed document.
I strongly recommend Microsoft to make it free to get a valid document.
-Going without sleep for months to past all the tests
-watching how my Microsoft Certifications are being printed in a Dot Matrix Color Printer
PRICELESS
Stupid Tree Huggers
GREED GREED GREED GREED
Snap out of it!!! We're paying you to help support your products, and you want to save a few bucks on each of the certs we get?? Does that mean our certs aren't worth the paper they used to be printed on??
Certificates MOTIVATION is more than what I can print!
Please do this more slow, we are evangelistas, so you need take care about us, we inspire to other people to take this way, if we are not happy we not recomended to MS.......be careful
Also bear in mine that the print quality of the certificates can never be the same and you can imagin what image that will give.
Please rethink over the initiative.
I will not take 6 exams to get my MCPD Enterprise for .NET Framework 3.5.
I've already made my digital certificate in Photoshop.
Thank you.
I do not want pay extra money for my certificate !
Maybe you should sell all the big, fat cars in front of your company building to have a better carbon footprint. Or you use things that is called "bicycles".
BUT DON'T TAKE AWAY THE CERTIFICATES I PAYED AND EARNED!!!
This will show the high value of a quality certification!
Downloading the certificate just really isn't the same. Some people already think that you can get a MS Certification just by going in and clicking a bunch of buttons (believe me, its been said about me!), and not having a nice shiny card certificate will just make it worse.
While I appreciate the need to be green, I now have to pay a processing fee and postage in order to get my nice shiny certificate. Have I not already paid enough for my exam and training, and then to have to pay to actually get the certificate as well? There's nothing wrong with using recycled paper, if you want to be greener!
As for prometric, I have earned three exam vouchers through a beta exam earlier in the year, and have one second shot left, as well as one of the aforementioned vouchers left. Due to their technical problems, I'm unable to book either of these before the end of the months, and when I emailed them to ask for a 7 day extension, was basically told "tough", so now my vouchers and hard work go to waste.
which is fortune to me in my national currency.
Obviously this has nothing to do with the environment, only cutting costs!
Its a little sad news, the certificate , card and badge we are getting are really an inspiring element of our confidence...
Please charge some small amount for shipping..
Thanks
Krishna
While the option to provide certificates in electronic form to save paper/cost/whatever is a great idea and there will be people that appreciate this option, there will still be a lot of people that would like something physical to reflect the amount of work put in. I would happily pay extra for the physical wallet card (Don't get me wrong - the digital card sounds excellent). Personally, I was looking forward to comparing/showing off my wallet cards with friends and classmates to use as a study incentive.
I know for sure that I will be ordering all certificates and just wish that I could order a wallet card as well - at cost if need be.
I noticed that one of the MSFT posters mentioned that it is easy to obtain a counterfeit wallet card. This is something that I'd actually consider purchasing if MSFT discontinued them.
The only way to show them how bad decision they have made is stop paying for those crap MCTS/MCITP exams. I'm sure amount of MCTS/MCITP exams is low compared to old good real MCP times. That is why they were trying to boost it with second shoot.
The only real value in MCTS/MCITP was paper cert and plastic card, now even those are gone. ROTFL.
MSL should learn from Vista failure, you can't fix something that is broken with even worse product. It might take them few fiscal years to notice that. LOL.
Honestly how can a printable certificate compare to a "real" certificate and cards?
All these so called "green" actions are really just shifting the costs away from Microsoft to the end-users.
I like getting the welcome kits after the exams - gave me the feeling I was actually getting something for the certification fees rather than just an electronic exam!
This takes the shine away from actually engaging in courses of study, which when you have to do multiple exams aren't exactly cheap!
I concure after all the effort people put in to learn and support the product a few dollars spent on a certificate is inconsequential.
Irrespective of my comments, how does microsoft printing and shipping a cert in a paper envelope, any different from a user printing the certificate to display. quite likely they are going to print multiple times to get it right.
If you audited users, i think you will find close to 100% would use these certificates to display or for employment etc, and therefore waste would be minimal. I have all my certs here including the original envelopes.
If microsoft continues down this path, they should at least make it an opt in and see how many people take the offer up. There is no reason the additional digital certificates cannot be offered.
There's NOTHING GREEN in this decision except the MS's anticipsation of the colour of our brains. MS GUYS, if we were so green in the brains we wouldn't be MS Certified. With this decision You will loose the biggest supportters you have on the ground CERTIFIED PEOPLE. As beeing MCT I know what the PRINTED DIPLOMA does ! DONT DONT DONT GO DOWN THIS ROAD !!
I would like to say that this is not the way to go. People are spending huge amounts of money to gain their certifications, and all they will get is a digital copy which doesn't look professional at all. If you want to go green then their are other ways of going about it. I request don't do this to us.
I don't want to make it obvious here, this approach has its own problems.
I'm going for Cisco at least the respect the intelligence of there student, going green my A***S.
Microsoft should call it going for a quick GREEN Buck.
You guys are not concerned about FootPrint, you are trying to reduce shipping costs.
The certificate you send us by ship is really very importante to find a good Job.
Cheapers!!!
To reduce the company’s carbon footprint and impact on the environment” ???
Please try to help other companies to go GREEN by providing valuable printing options which are removed from Outlook 2007. In Outlook 2003 these option are available and by removing them from the latest version is not helping at all.
If Microsoft wants to go GREEN then they should provide a platform for others to go GREEN, by doing this they will achieve more then what they will by not printing MCP certificates.
Just compares the small amount of certificates to the people using outlook 2007 and printing all emails because they don't have selective printing option (workaround are not options).
I am really disappointed with Microsoft's decision, i think they only want to save money.
Going green = Going almighty dollar green.
Everything is said before me ...
I hope M$ changes this decision.
Kindly reconsider this go green activity, added value lies for the cerfificate if the professional receives the certification card from microsoft.
So kindly go with the current Welcome Kit.
This is my suggestion as an MCP
PLEASE HELP US SAY I'M MCP BY PROVIDING OUR CERTIFICATES PROPERLY
"We are writing in regards to your certificates issue.
We have received feedback from our technical department that the charter
certificates can not be downloaded from the website.
Please accept our sincerely apologies for the delay and any
inconvenience you may have experienced."
WHAT??? Seriously? So you work extra hard to get charter member status, and now you have NO way of showing it.
Sort it out Microsoft. WE ARE YOUR BUSINESS. As the decision makers and influencers, if decide we no longer want to use Microsoft products, then as the decision makers and influencers we will find other solutions.
A bit melodramatic maybe, but taking our opinions into account is important.
Thanks microsoft for considering all the supportive feedback from your test takers and NOT reversing this OUTSTANDING idea...
Of course that last paragraph is heavily laced with sarcasm ;)
Your "green" argument makes no sense at all. I bet you are going to actually increase the wasted papers as individuals try to print their certificates into acceptable copies...
A better "green" initiative would have been (like has been previously suggested) to allow the individual to decide if they want to be "green" or not.
Gordon Bethune, former CEO of Continetal Airlines once said 'its possible to make a pizza so cheap no one wants to eat it' Well that could be dressed up as being pro green now a-days! Why waste land growing pigs for pepperoni and energy heating glass houses to make tomatoes year round (or air freighting them from the other hemispehere) when you can claim you are being green by offering people less on their pizza??
The impact that Microsoft certification mailings have on climate change is nothing compared to other impacts Microsoft have on the world, of which many are less beneficial.
Of further note is the importantance of supporting global, locallly provided daily door to door postal services which are an essential element of community life world wide and an essential connection with the outside world for many people. Most of these people won't be MCP students, but the postal service is funded by us all, for the good of all. It should be encouraged, but bashed by bean counters trying to get nasty cost sayings in under a green banner.
Simon
From this point I will write very important things, so MSL Team should pay attention on this post, as well as other certified individuals. I will ask some questions for which I need your answers.
1) Anyone remember how looks a MOC book? It is nearly A4 formatted 5cm depth volume with just a little information on its pages, half of them are pictures therewith. Do MSL have plan to somehow reorganize its educational supplies? For example, Oracle's student guides are notebook size with _more info in it.
2) Will Microsoft reflect its "green" initiative on exam costs? They cut of their own costs on certificates issue(lets assume pdf-generating servers are not so expensive to maintain), but why customers should receive no benefit from this?
3) To be honestly, why do we need support certification programm by means of our money at all? Of course, it is nearly to impossible to migrate infrastructure to other vendors, and some MS products are realy at high- or near end, and therefore require solid knowledge, but what the reason we spend money and time to achieve another "status"? Do we realy need it? Sometimes it looks like fetishism. Under certain conditions, you will not receive any advance in carrier or salary for achieving another one. To stick it on the wall? Come on, there are many other things which can be sticked. To achieve something in computer industry, to gain knowledge? Come on, the real life, the real projects have more challenges than majority of MS exams. It is not a secret, that sometimes exams are very stupid, I mean very easy.
My last point. Communiqué:
Lets do a flash_mob: "MCPs go down." The whole july do not take any MS exam. Boycott.
You will see - nothing will changes. Nobody's salary will be reduced. No-one will know less about AD and Exchange. The net effect - Microsoft will go green.
Jet Pilot,
MCT, MCSA*6, MCSE*4
p.s. to contact me about flash_mob please feel free to unicast an email to shrek400 at mail.ru
Or--in August, you'll be able to use a virtual business card to do the same thing, plus have it link directly to your transcript to *really* have us verify it.
Please offer digital certificates as an option--and continue to send us our paper certifications for free. After spending time and money to earn certifications, it's nice to get a paper certification as a "reward".
This will make the certificate loss of value!
I already have cracked this pdf while I need JPEGed representation of my certificate. If I required a logo I just post it on my site.
And again, this pdf is MY property or not? Why it is contain a foreign password?
BTW, I have asked some other questions, which you have not answered.
For example, do MSL will reduce format of MOC books? They are gigants and contain disproportionately few info.
I found your answer about exam costs - MS will not reduce 'em. This is unfair. Unfair to community - MS reduce its costs and not reduce costs for its customers. Like a pure corporation, though.
http://photoload.ru/data/c5/f3/1e/c5f31ecf4111f...
This is really unfair on paying for shipping. I am not against the green concept. What i don't agree with is that i have to pay for shipping. One pays the exam after going through tough period of preparation. Remember Microsoft is covering the whole world even in areas where there are no Credit cards. so hw do u expect them to order the certificate. THINK GLOBALLY PLEASE!
I want my printed certificate!!
I do not want to pay extra shipping and handling fee as the fee is already well covered in the exam fee!!!
Digit certificates like counterfeit money will create chaos only. It devalues the MCP program and makes the program disappear faster – GREENEST result!!!!
Smart people do make mistakes. Please reverse it!!!!!
Green is good, but think of it, its my certificate for god's sake, it must be my right to have it paper based.
as i can see from the MCP flash, our comments are useless because microsoft already placed dates and deadlines, so commenting here is just like christmas in january
The physical items are a tangible reward for all the time, effort, and expense put into earning certification.
If we are all printing our own certs out there is no savings to the environment anyway.
I'll check into the password issue. I imagine it has something to do with helping to guard against fraudulent certificates, but I'll ask to make sure.
I'm confused about your MOC question--I have a few recent courses in my office, and the books are quite small in size, about the size of an average hardback book in a bookstore. Perhaps you haven't seen our courseware in a while? We switched over to a smaller form factor last year.
Finally, I'm sorry your disappointed that we're not lowering our exam costs. Frankly, we're using our cost savings as a way to avoid *raising* our prices (as other vendors have done recently). We haven't raised our exam prices in eight years, and we have no plans to do so in the near future.
and how long will it take to be shipped to nigeria.
I suppose they will allow me to take my cert tests from home vs going to a prometric testing center. (hour drive one way for me)
:)
Cheers
If you are *really* concerned about the green issues (hahaha) then I promise to plant a tree and walk to work for a week each time I order a kit ;)
so please Please Please
AFAIK It wasn't even announced this will be discontinued.
What else are you planning to discontinue in next 30 days?
And again you haven't updated you page - that means you are frauding people that have passed exams in last 7 days. Same like you have done in 2007 and 2008 with MCTS not being MCP while your site wasn't mentioning anything like that.
https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/benefits/whatsnew...
Anyone who have passed exams in last 7 days should receive free welcome kits like it is promised on your site!
As for the page you refer to, I'm pretty sure that's an "orphan," meaning it's not linked to anywhere from our site (but thanks for brining it to our attention, I've asked for it to be removed). It's been replaced by: https://mcp.microsoft.com/mcp/benefits/default...., which is up-to-date and correct. No fraud. :-)
Find out what is new in certification benefits". Notice word "NEW"!
What a shame - do you know what is responsibility? Have you heard about Dell mistakes on site? Who is the Manager here and who is responsible for the fact that even simple removing of benefits is done with such failures?
But thanks for pointing out the link--I see it, and I'll ask that it be removed too. It's pretty clearly backdated and superceded by the official benefits page, but you're absolutely right that we should have caught and removed it sooner.
Thanks for the catch!
So far you have cenzorshiped three my posts. Do you have any written rules abuout cenzorship?
I try to keep my language polite with the way you ignore people it is really hard.
EPIC FAIL
First post:
It was/is linked from right site links. So Fraud!
Second post:
Check right side of your link. That is FRAUD! It is not orphaned! The link to page that I have posted is called on new site that you linked as a "Related Links•
Find out what is new in certification benefits"
FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! Like in 2007 and 2008!
Third post:
Wonder why my comments doesn't show up immediately, censorship? I keep "language professional" and call things with right words (FRAUD!)
Your posts didn't show up because our spam filter caught them. (I see them in our spam folder.)
However, it appears that you assumed that the failure of those comments to appear was censorship--and when you assume that our intent is anything other than positive, it's pretty easy to make mistakes like that, and pretty tough us to have constructive conversations.
Similarly, here's a link to the definition of fraud: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fraud
Notice that a key requirement of "fraud" is an intent to deceive for unlawful or dishonest gain.
I think that especially when you put that page in context with the rest of our site, it's pretty clear that what we've committed is a *mistake* not *fraud.*
Same goes for your earlier complaint--I agree with you that the language could be less confusing, but it's pretty hard for me to see how one could think we were attempting fraud.
You are absolutely welcome to criticize all you like--but I would appreciate it if you would assume positive intent on our part and keep the discussion focused on facts rather than accusations, ok?
Thanks!
We do know that there are people and places in the world that prefer the old system, and we hope that they'll adjust to and over time prefer the new system. In the meantime, again, they can continue to order their certificates for a small shipping/handling fee.
I do agree that the credit-card-only thing is a problem. I hope we'll see more payment types added soon.
Oh, and about delivering exams to you digitally on your own Internet connection and at your own computer: we're working on it. :-)
That is interesting - I wasn't selling blue pills or advertising enlargement of body parts. If my first was accepted and many of later posts never were marked by human as a spam then what was the reason of it? For me you explanation doesn't work. I do not believe in your single word. Why? You have said you seen it was in spam folder then why haven't you moved it out of it? Cenzorship!
"Notice that a key requirement of “fraud” is an intent to deceive for unlawful or dishonest gain."
I do not believe in your intentions, you have failed with providing true intentions with going green. I'm not the only one, press PGUP and you will find more people that do not believe you. for me it is Fraud no matter what your intentions are. Think about intentions of your "customers". They came on your sites read informations here, they believe you just to find it latter that you were lying. Like you have done in 2007, 2008 and now in 2009. If you are serious business then let us threat your serious. Now it looks like everyone who would like to deal with MS must consider that every word from you might be misleading, must dig into your blogs to find explanations and announcements in time. In legal terms it doesn't matter what your intentions were, again think about those FRAUDED people in 2007 and 2008. Those people weren't given any explanation till Trika posts! I am sure your intentions here wouldn't matter from law point of view. No matter how would it be called by lawyers, cheating, misleading, frauding the fact is those people were given promised to get MCP and welcome kits and that is how civil law sees it.
If you are unable to provide correct informations about your offer add statements like : Do not treat as seriously, we can provide you misleading informations, and this site is no offer in law terms. That could help you in court. I'm still hoping to see class action about MCP/MCTS.
I can't tell why spam filters work the way they do, but for some reason, it caught your comments. As to why I didn't move them out, it's because you reposted them when you brought them to my attention, so it seemed redundant to publish them again. :-)
But since you don't believe me on this or any other issue, there's no point in my taking the time to address any more of your questions and concerns.
I hope you continue to find this blog a useful source of information and a worthwhile investment of all the time you put in here, and if at some point you're willing and ready to assume positive intent, let us know and we can resume our dialogue.
Ken
I don't have a credit card and those cards you use to buy, pay and sell things are only for a few in my country, how will i be able to order for my MCITP Wallet Card from Microsoft!
Trust me, i am from Africa and no one in the interview room will ever listen to things like "i will email it or send you a link" besides there are many people who forge certificates and you have open up room for those guys to do business and spoil our field indeed.
Those certificates and wallet cards will be forged big time if MS stops giving legal ones.
There is a page on the site which is dead, please let us know whats going on instead of kill pages abruptly.
I am OK with the Green campaign, but it will be better done if you ONLY you ship the Certificate and Wallet Card WITHOUT the other advert papers and letter, plastic covers and excess hard covers.
Thank you
it is same problem with me, as you mentioned regarding Credit card and Interviewer, I also already suggested bringing back the old system, but no one is there to hear about us, I hope they hear and feel our failure after many successes.
- Offloading the printing of certificates to the end recipients is not a carbon saving. Printing certs multiple times to 'get it right' could in fact create more.
- The ratio of the net carbon saving compared to the cost and time spent per MCP is out of proportion. Adding insult to injury, MCPs are the ones doing all the spending, while you're the ones doing all the cutting
- A tangible reward that is considered VERY important to MCPs has been removed
- By not consulting the MCP community first, you have seriously alienated them
- The percentage of people on this blog that disagree with this move would roughly represent what the MCP community thinks as a whole. Even worse for you, only the small minority that know about this blog are able to see your responses to thier opinions. On a scale of 1-5, the score of 1.28 shown above, is the equivalent of 0.28 if the scale was 0-4. (you know all the 1 star votes would be 0 star votes, if that was an available option). On a scale of 0-10 it's still not even a 1!
Because all these problems don't have actual solutions, this should be considered your 'net result' from this move. As a business owner/director myself, if I was getting this sort of feedback, I would be back-pedaling like crazy.
Thanks MS, good to know you're still good at thinking of ways to milk your customers, even those that are willing to get certified in your products, which already helps perpetuate your business.
I'am really affraid to notice that as year passes,microsoft certificates value are decreasing;because they begin by discontinuing the shipment of lapel pin;and now certificates,May be tomorow it 'll be the certification program itself! Who knows
BTW I can suggest NOT to send paper spam like "Switch to Visual Studio 2008 now" or "People ready" you know, stuff like these. It is really hollow information and it costs (as I think) much more than limited number of certificates for the professionals that really interested in Microsoft technologies.
Thanks in advance!
Edward
"Online MCP Resources Retiring in December (Worldwide)
Due to limited usage, on December 15, 2008, we will retire the following online resources currently available to Microsoft Certified Professionals (MCPs) and MCTs: Membership Directory, Profiles on Microsoft.com, and access to the partner-level Knowledge Base. Watch for announcements of new MCP benefits in early 2009. For questions regarding the MCP program, visit your Regional Service Center."
That counts to 6 discontinued benefits, with average close to one benefit gone per month. LOOOOOL
Subscribe to RSS and wait for more. With such speed till end of the year they might discontinue whole MS:)
Hope you can fix it for us.
If Microsoft was serious about the environment they would give test takers the option of not recieving a certificate - for those interested in reducing their "carbon footprint".
Please back to the "old system"
NOW IT'S TIME TO MICROSOFT PROVE THEY HEAR THE COMMUNITY. JUST WATCH THE POST'S AT THIS TOPIC TO SEE COMMUNITY'S CHOICE
Original certificate from your printers are more official than something printed on color laser printer at our homes or companies.
We as MCSEs, MCITPs, MCTs spend considerable resources to promote Microsoft's products and training.
The least Microsoft can do is provide is certificates that are authentic and professional.
I must say that I don't feel good about putting it up on the wall next to the original high-quality certs.
As far as other benefits, thank you for offering technet direct to MCTs; how about adding eBooks and/or nonexpiring eLearning from the MS site?
What about the partner program where we used to be able to get NFR software from those that partnered with MS? Lately that's gone down the drain.
Finally, MCITP -- now we're just professionals rather then systems engineers -- what a downgrade in the image of the cert! Please reinstate the MCSE/MCSA titles.
Thank you for your time.
What will be the nex saving item???
This is a cost cutting measure just like everything else MS is doing, nothing more. This time however your treating your MCP's as customers, which I guess they are. Just like the media download requirements for MAPS now this puts the burden on the end user/customer to do what they use to get Microsoft to do as part of the fees associated with the purchase, yes paying for a test and training materials is a purchase.
BTW if there was such a thing as actually being able to track carbon output on a piece by piece basis as you are trying to do by no longer printing Certificates you have just moved your footprint from the Redmond printing office to some distant Geek's home printer. Oh but wait let's count each watt of electricity for each router the "Digital Cert" travels not to mention the labor for the data center MS is using to produce the Digital Cert, the labor for the MCP's email hosting, etc, etc.
Going green , A BIG BS Microsoft!
Microsoft Small Business Specialist
Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator
MCP, MCTS: Vista, MCTS: SharePoint, MCITP: Vista Consumer, MCITP: Vista Enterprise
I am sure some bean counting MBA
came up with idea and that he never considered the implicit message this sends as to the value of certification. Or then again, he could be sending the message that Microsoft intends.
We spend a lot of money on classes, exams, and study guides. If Microsoft can't cover the $10 (or whatever it is) to send us a nice printed certificate for our hard efforts, Microsoft should just cancel certifications in the name of 'greenness'...now that would save a lot of paper!
Like everyone said.. this is a cost cutting measure..
Surely, the AU$180 per exam fee should cover the cost of sending a piece of paper..
MS just de-valued their certifications and tries to cover it with some lame excuse...
"Going Green", Green = Green Dollars $$
So in other words Microsoft is GOING to make GREEN dollars.
The old system was much better.....
Or I have an idea....
Those of us who want paper certificate should be able to order them for free.....Those who don't want wont order....
And cut the crap of God damn "GOING GREEN" aka Microsoft is GOING to make GREEN dollars
The Green excuse and that is what it is, is just pathetic…
After the money i spent, and all the effort i put into getting my MCP,
and after all the hassle of validating my MCP, i cant even download the damn qualification!!!
This is an absolute disgrace on microsoft's behalf.
I recently passed a Sun Microsystems Java exam,
and they emailed me the next day saying they would be sending out my Certificate!
Now thats the way it should be.
This is just another way for microsoft to save money and make it hard for people just to get a damn cert on paper!
1 step forward 10 steps back.
Also, the new downloaded certificates have different certification wording from the previously available downloadable and printed certificates, which goes to show that there's no consistency, such as the hyper V cert just says server virtualization on the new download.
Also not giving even 60 days notice to the change in policy is unfair, as I already had an exam booked which was for after the deadline
Sort of reminds me of tickets I purchased recently online. If you want the ticket mailed it's $7. If by Email it's $5. What kind a fee is needed where no human has touched the ticket request - unlike mailing where the ticket has to be printed, tucked in an envelope and then mailed.
I would like to propose the following suggestion for MS if they are really consider to our voice.
1. establish a plan for existing holder to choose to maintain the existing plan. They can order paper certificate w/o paying extra shipping and handling charge
2. Discount the exam fee (Not a short period to CHEAT user), deduct whole shipping and handling fee.
3. Send me an official email and tell me that it is MS new arrangement.
And please note it in the email "if you don't accept it please do not use MS product".
I am vvvvvery angry w/ this new arrangement.
I just planned my OCS and W2K8 virtualization in coming months. I will cut it. And I won't suggest OCS as Enterprise Voice and IM solution to my customer. I will not suggest Hyper-V as Virtualization platform.
I will not take Win7 exam for driving new Desktop deployment.
Angry Loyal MS user
Victor Tong
http://www.0101news.com/?page_id=165
Please think it seriously. Don't make this as another Vista.
If I pay a lot of money (here in argentina US$100 is a lot of money, around 10% of a promediate family incomes) I want something real not virtual! You are disencouraging people to take the certfications. When I pay a service I wanna the services, when I pay a certfication I want my CERT included in my exam cost. No just a Virtual Cert allegating we are going green, if you need your cert pay more!!
Sandro D. Garcia
Going green LOL a piece of plastic doesn't consume any power once its made but all the servers used to run this scheme will now be useing resources for ever and a day.
And please do not deploy new machine. It is a mean to go green.
But not cutting our hard copy certification.
Doing the Microsoft certification course now, but suddenly completing the internationals has lost its appeal. I want decent certificates for all my hard work, not some cheap piece of paper I printed myself.
Why don't you reduce the exam fee? Don't you think that's good time for?
What the hell...
Let vote it in my blog.
I just created a polling.
This can provide more concrete figures for MS reference
I think there are many other ways to reduce the carbonfoot print which been mentioned in the other post above.
In rebuttal to Michael Dragone in particular:
1- I agree that the wallet cards were high-quality, but zero use. If people want to verify your credentials, they'll check online and not ask for your wallet card. To me it's just a "Check this out!" thing, and no worthwhile value. HOWEVER- If they made these cards with a running update of what all your certifications with Microsoft were, then I would like to see that! But I have enough plastic in my wallet now to make it difficult to sit straight, and I don't need yet another "necessary" piece of plastic added to it.
2- I also see no point in the digital ID cards.
3- I have only ever used Prometric. They are usually pretty decent, though their test gets very "laggy" by the end. It stunk on taking the 70-297 (first time only so far) when I spent all my time trying to read the scenario, ended up with only 2.75 minutes to answer 7 questions, and was experiencing 45-second delays between screens. Yup, didn't complete that one. And I have a huge bone to pick over the 70-297 test; but that's another discussion.
4- Printed certificates with metallic seals are of huge appeal, as they are useful in shops and offices where people want to see a display of your credentials. They also are a trophy of pride for people who have spent months/years and thousands of dollars in preparation to reach some lofty certification. I didn't like the last credential I got; I thought it looked kinda cheap. Now trying to do away with them? Bad move. That makes it near-worthless to me. Yes, people in interviews don't check your credentials by having you bring them in; it's a matter of displaying them to potential customers.
5- MCSE vs. newer certs... I like the concept of purpose-specific certifications, but MCSE realistically is pretty core to understanding the whole ball of wax. MCSE is not irrelevant. And as more and more organizations (not just users) are saying that they won't use Windows 7, or at least not for a long time, and knowing how little difference Server 2008 seems to make vs. 2003 in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that MCSE is obsolete in the slightest. I DO think that there should be an MCSE-2008, like the difference that occurred between 2000 and 2003, and not some other monicker.
But for my take on the "green" junk... As evidenced by these comments, I'm sure everyone will print it out themselves anyway, wasting an equivalent amount of ink and paper. And with enough misprints, there will probably be more paper and ink used than if MS did it. You're not saving any trees. And the shipping would be the only potential difference. But- One thin packet will not impact the transport systems. The same planes and trucks will still go on their routes. Yes, if a billion people went truly paperless, then we'd have much fewer postal delivery vehicles. But then again, sales of things like jump drives, which are far less eco-friendly, would skyrocket. And this isn't even touching my true feelings on the whole "carbon footprint" (BS!) concept.
Side note - I worked for Wells Fargo years ago, when they went "paperless" for most notifications. The funny part of it was that, with the way it was carried out, this ended up making them print MORE stuff (about 3x the original paperwork), and take up MORE storage space, etc. Wow, that went the wrong direction! So IMHO, "paperless" is also B.S. And think of all the extra power consumed in people repeatedly accessing server banks and transmitting via batches of routers... Each time you want to show someone you're official? Instead of holding up your beautiful Microsoft-provided print? Much less eco-friendly!
As for the other benefits that have gone away:
I think the lapel pins were a wonderful idea. I only got one for MCP, and thus kinda ignored it, but I'd love to have an MCSA and MCSE one.
Similarly, at the events, we used to get really nice TechNet and MSDN t-shirts with our welcome packs, and get them passed-out along the way too. I find these wonderful to wear when I have to get semi-dirty in a job and don't want to wear a polo shirt, but still have a high-quality Microsoft image. The tees they only sparingly give out now just look like you're turning us into billboards, and I avoid wearing it unless it's doing something totally non-tech-related and nowhere where I might drum-up customers for simple side work. So in short, please go back to giving out the nice-looking t-shirts!
As for the money-savings concept... I have a somewhat unfavorable overall opinion of Microsoft products these days (I'm now seriously starting to go into Linux, and am also looking into AmigaOS 4.1). But even so, I can totally understand that MS might actually be trying to make an environmental impact, with some level of altruistic intentions (with a financial side-benefit), being such a large company. However, I think it should be in the form of electronic manuals and advertisements, reducing the serious amount of paperwork being generated there, while leaving highly-valued paper products (a cert is only one sheet, for goodness' sake!) alone.
Please also keep in mind that this all might be tainted by my work in a print shop at a financial institution, where the 4 main IBM printers have generated a total of about 100 million prints. Suddenly printing a couple thousand sheets per workday --to send to people who earned and value them-- doesn't seem like so big a deal.
And to the person who said Microsoft won't listen: we can change that; just add the comment in every post-exam survey that "I want my Microsoft-provided paper certificate! Until I get it, I will not take another test!" Get a thousands of these on a daily basis, and watch the number of exams being taken plummetting, and SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO LISTEN!
Yeah, MCSE will be my last Microsoft certification. I'm done with them. And forget Windows 7.
I think, I will not continue my Microsoft certification concerning those conditions!
Microsoft only want to reduce the cost of give the people who pass the certification their welcome kit. But people pay the same for the certification.
The green reason is only a way to swindle people...
First they stopped giving technet subscriptions, then 1/2 price for upgrade exams and now certificates. They have never added value, only taken it away.
I will think twice before wasting money on another Microsoft certification
Please leave lame excuse of going green, and stop discouraging.
This idea just degrades the value of the certification system.
Think twice before going ahead with it.
This erodes the personal value that comes from achieving a qualification and then receiving a formal certificate.
It another bizarre step that makes me wonder yet again what is becoming of the company.
Dave, good post but you are missing M$'s latest practical joke... The certificates NO LONGER HAVE metallic seals. They have very recently switched to ink (yellow or grey) where the gold/silver metallic seal used to be. Effective tactic really - make it as ugly as it would be printed on your dot matrix printer at home. Now even if you order one you do not want one!
I also agree about Vista Millennium Edition (windows 7) - just forget about it.
I truly miss being an MCSE(ngineer) rather than having a flood of unknown and therefore worthless mcitp and mcts designators. Now both the tangible and intangible benefits of this certification program are gone.
Being green conscious is good but not at the cost of everything else useful.
Please remember your objectives.
Win - Win the deal
Drive - Drive Customer Satisfaction
Grow - Grow adoption and market
These objectives make MS guys/gals doing a lot of things to make customers happy.
But at that time, you are doing something to make us ANGRY!
How can I relate this new decision to MS Corp objectives?
I just feel that this decision is going to satisfy one or two people score card.
These people only do something to make their score card "Going Green".
This is not "One MS". This decision will make huge trouble to all MS front line people. Every customers will ask MS why there is a new annoying decision. This will make customer not to encourage MS cert.
A lot of gossip in the market discussing how "Stupid" it is.
Please consider it seriously and carefully.
If it is really a mistake, please stand up and admit it.
We will forgive it.
Victor Tong
MCP from NT4 to W2K8 (More than 11 years supporting MS cert)
Thanks for Microsoft so called "Go Green" decision.
i am in India here press house are can't gives us the the print out of certificates because of some legal rules
Second complaint: digital graphic content should have several sizes but 5 MB for each certificate (only "really big" size) and logos are really too small for using it.
I know this is political incorrect, But I don't give a dam about carbon footprints and all that environmental BS. This is just a way for Microsoft to increase it's profits while providing less services to it's customers and MCP professionals.
There is a reason why when you graduate from a college or ANY program in fact you are given an paper certificate, it is tangible item. Digital certificates ARE not tangible. There are some that say you can print it yourself, the fact remains it will NEVER look as professional as the one you will get Microsoft.
IMHO
Over these years, the MCP program has been losing and losing its benefits. Cool label pins are no more, together with the Free Technet subscriptions, and now this.
Hey Microsoft people, we are no dumbs. It is not a "going green" project. It is a "going cheap" project. You want to maximize benefits, and it is reasonable. But are you sure you are going to maximize benefits when the "going cheap" project?
Let me state it clearly: over the years, I have passed 14 MCP exams. And I shall NEVER take any other exam if I can get no benefit.
Downloadable certificates? My God, they look like if you make it with Photoshop.
Digital wallet cards? Sure, let me show it to an employer or colleague. It always nice to see people laughting in your face.
Please reconsider it, please keep on sending the cool wallet cards and Paper Certificates with the signature of old uncle Bill. This at least. And it would be great if you start sending Label Pins again.
Otherwise... Well, you will not see a single cent from me... And most of my colleagues in my company think the same way.
Stop investing money in crap like BING and offer great support and bennefits to people who campaign for you!!
@ all;How can we object this?
Almost 50 days after first "going green" entry on this blog, MS got 322 comments here and still counting!. There are tens more under other going green posts.
Isn't it time to "pay very close attention to customer satisfaction"?
1. How many MS certificates that the decision maker hold?
2. How often the decision maker will use these certs for their job seeking?
3. How often the decision maker will use MS cert in their daily works?
4. Did decision maker include their MS certs in their yearly review as measurement?
I believe if they are gone through these points. They will not construct a plan to stop paper cert by default.
Please think serious before you roll out a high impact plan. You just said "pay close attention to customer satisfaction report".
Report is a tool to measure the result.
But the most import thing is the fundamental of the plan. If the plan itself contains some fundamental issues (e.g. impact to ALL MCPs satisfaction).
Why you go ahead and roll it out??
And then waiting for report results!!
If report told you that "Stop paper cert" is good, you keep going to do it???
Did you think that report itself also contains risk and error??
Satisfaction report may not reflect the actual / real figures.
Please balance and think it seriously.
I just find this decision contains million holes and impacts which does not consider and handle it very well.
One again to show the general MS practice. Haven't complete necessary test or drill and then release it.
Vista is the same. After RTM, release a SP1 which seems to remove all of my SP0 and re-install it as SP1.
Exchange 2007 RTM is the same, some performance (e.g. mail queue performance version buckets) have not tuned and roll it out. No UI for Public Folder administrator.
Some settings in UI are not working.
My personal feeling is that in this MS generation they are rush to roll out everything without a well preparation to the market.
A lot of my customer shared their comment that please wait their software release SP1, SP1 is the real RTM. After a public debugging and testing period complete, SP1 is the real RTM for the market.
That is the current MS image.
It does not matter. You can ahead w/ your plan like Vista RTM roll out.
UAC will be enabled by default in Vista RTM.
UAC default option changed in SP1. Why ??
You think it yourself.
recently MS has announced "Going Green" but this actually means that in next coming years MS will no longer will be usable in Market "MS will be Going RED" worldwide, from now on take this an idea from MS and I tell to every one of you MPCs that no longer consider for MS certifications and go for MAC and Linux.
I am holding MCT certificate for 4 years ,It's really shameful.
My students are so sad about it, they lost their hope to show their certificates to others ... it is not green .
This idea is great for me, everytime I got my cert I'd have to scan it into PDF to email anywhere anyway. So this gives me a PDF copy of it when I get certified and not having to wait for my certificate to come in the mail. Thanks it even looks good too.
Be slow to jubilate about the PDF Cert till you download one! If i can read your mind, you have not downloaded(dl) one!
I have dl one and what you don't know is that each PDF cert is more that 5MB in size! Just one and if you have more than 5 certs like many members here to email then that would be talking of 25MB+ of attach!
Very interesting indeed, i come from a country where bandwidth is a problem because we are still using satellite tech for internet which makes it slow and trust me, it will take you along time to upload that. It will also take your potential employer along time to download your mail that is if you are luck for their servers to accept such big attachment.
I also hit a rock as i wanted to request for my MCITP Certs, i was required to ONLY use cards(Master, Visa, e.t.c) i can't get my certs because i don't have any of those cards and to have one in my country, you should be a rich man/woman who doesn't even need to do MS Certifications.
For heaven's sack MS, why can't you put into consideration all your customers globally! We are not all from Europe and MS has done its best to dominate our countries but i think they have got it wrong this time because there is going to be a revolution to OpenSource from what am seeing.
I want to request Sarah Grant and the MS moderators to advise me on how to pay for the my certs. I paid for the examination, sat for it and passed but i can't get my Cert yet i also have the 9 dollars you have imposed!
Please revise this decision and know that the previous system worked so well.
Waiting for your reply!
If it is possible to make crowed on the street and demonstrate for the rights? also it is possible to make crowed in this forum, I suggest you all if you want that M$ bring back the old system? so do not go for any more certification, lets make this a promise world wide that no one will go for certification, until M$ did not bring back the old system,
I will stop my planned MS cert until they bring back the old system.
And I will not suggest my customers going to MS products until I am happy to the arrangement.
Now you can basically create your own certificate in Photoshop and walk to an interview. It will be more work for the employer/team lead to verify that the MCP number belongs to the actual candidate and verify the transcripts to make sure the candidate actually took the tests he/she claims.
This doesn't make sense to me at all, it lowers the value of the exam and the value of the certification. Who would recommend you to print your own money? Probably the same person that would recommend you to print your own university diploma. It is non-sense, perfect for fraud, more work for the employers, less value for the certification.
I am also disappointed about the MCP knowledge base taken offline. I found quite a few articles there that were not part of the public MSDN or TechNet. Most of the time those articles were not in the public eye as there were bugs/behaviors that were being corrected on a hotfix or as part of a service pack.
Now we'll have to call tech support all the time as they will be the only ones with access to this internal KB.
Posted by: Ken Rosen (Microsoft) | Jun 10, 2009 at 1:34 pm"
They have discontinued 6 benefits since December 2008. Their average is one discontinued benefit per month:)
Don't take MS or Ken Rosen words seriously. They can discontinue any benefit immediately or in next 30 days - with announcement on blog only. They take no responsibility for failures, for unavailable MCP page, for misleading (frauding) informations on their or their partners pages...
I understand your concern about the certificates, and I agree. We don't recommend that you use the certificates as proof of your certification, as they can be easily forged. (This has always been true.)
That's why we're launching virtual business cards for MCPs next month--you can use those to reliably authenticate an MCP's credentials, much better than you can with a certificate.
I'm very sorry to hear that you miss the knowledge base. Unfortunately, Microsoft is retiring that system altogether.
I wish we were able to still offer that one--there really was no reason for it to go away other than the simple fact that the product support team that ran it decided that it didn't fit into their team's charter, and we don't have the expertise in the Learning team to keep it going on our own. We tried to convince the team to keep offering it for at least a while longer, but usage was very, very, very low: you must have been one of the few to take advantage of it while it lasted! (There you go, insight into the challeging inner workings of a big company)
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/j...
But by deceiving people who paid and worked hard for the certification seems disingenuous on MS's part.
As part of the official statement MS says that it has taken this action to satisfy its commitment to the environment and the customer's demands.
But take a look at the 100s of comments about this issue on all forums on the internet. The overwhelming majority of test takers do not support this initiative. We feel we are being penalized.
Adding insult to the injury now MS is charging around $10 for shipping a certificate. This makes the whole "green initiative" to look like a "green-back initiative" focused on milking more money from hardworking test takers.
In your follow up you bring up a point that having a paper certificate has no impact on the authenticity as anyone can do it. I agree. But consider this, making a digital photoshop certificate is far easier to forge than a paper certificate, that adds the paper quality etc into the picture. In third world countries, forging a paper certificate is much difficult than a digital one.
MS's attitude to its customers is very disappointing and is discouraging me from taking further certifications from MS.
I hope MS accepts, apologizes and remedies its folly by restarting the welcome kit delivery to certification takers.
PLz tell me that,Whenever this virtual Card will come into Action..is their any way to take out the hard copy of this card...in the same format & material as of the old wallet cards...........
As for not offering paper at all--I hope someday we can do that, but for now (as many readers have pointed out) many of our customers still have a strong preference to have a paper certificate, so we are providing the option (along with a disincentive for ordering in the form of a shipping and handling fee).
If you are not going to send paper certs why don't you guys simple reduce the cost of the exams to end up the discussions here. That will be a very good option in return to us.
If MS will still continue with this but will not reduce the cost of the exams. I will end up studying MS products through CBT Nuggets and other computer based training BUT I WILL NOT TAKE ANY MS EXAMS. Because papers certs and wallet cards are live proof of your credentials.
Without them (paper certs / wallets) exams are useless to me because the real world expertise are the skills that will take you to the top.
How long does it usually take them to fix a problem with their server?
Ken!!
I think you forget that your customers do not have strong preferences only to have physical certificates but also have strong preferences have Welcome Kits and wallet cards, if you can read all the comments in here, it is almost 99.9% that people are asking for physical certs and welcome kits and wallet cards, do you???
When my MCSE friends pulled out there cards, it was like WOW, I can't wait to get mine, and now we all get screwed. Yea, I downloaded the pathetic MS emblem, At least they could have put a little effort into making it look cool like the cards did, but that would only cost more money as well. I only spent nearly a $1000.00 on the MCSE like everyone else did and look at what we get for it. Cheap paper.
“Tomek” Nothing personal, but your full of it. What Microsoft should have done, w as at least given us an option. When you tell people that your are MCSE and they are like “what???, what is that?” You pull out your little wallet size card and guess what? That explains it all. Instead of trying to explain everything. See, I can’t do that because someone at MS doesn’t care about the MCP’s.
Another question? “We are still making the paper option available AND we now making the digital option available too.” If you are doing this, why can’t MS at least give their MCPs the option to allow us to have our plastic?
“Fiundin” Sorry man, I already called and talked to MS myself and they no longer offer it. That is why I am being a total prick on this thing.
Microsoft, you suck for what you did and your killing something you had going good, I think. Having a digital cert is good, but Don’t kill an Icon for achievement. Something that so many of us strived to get. It’s like an engineers bragging right. I was still planning on achieving my MCTS SQL 2005 cert, but I don’t think I am going to waste my time with it. Learn the stuff and move on. Having the oracle cert will be sufficed.
Clearly the only green that MS is concerned about is the money that represents their bottom line. In their effort to save a few dollars and get some enviro-cred they are cheapening the prestige and hard work of attaining certifications.
B'coz 99.99% of people r Freakin Out by ur Stupid(sorry) decision.
OK........wat u have done, u have done...
But atleast u should have provided an option of ordering wallet Cards..
Just like Certificates...
The wallet Card carries great Importance in this Market
...........Don't u Understand this
....... Do we need to clear this again n again..
Please kindly allow free shipment of certificates at least for the developing countries. I need to take some more exams as well but I am financially struggling. I admit the fact that only Microsoft allows for the exams US$50for the developing countries. Please continue to do the good work I need to survive in the struggling economic condition.
I just started 2008 track to Server admin with first exam. But i think, this is my last exam. Like many others, i can't use virtual cards, not all world - USA. We in developing countries need hard copies, this is our lifestyle here. All we need is love and papers about everything.))
M$ - we are people, who convice to bye your software and later we implement it by yourself. And we give you our hard-earned money for exams.
And what we get? Digital Business Card? My god, thanks.)))
May be we should pay you for exam digital money scans? We could go green too.))
Why am i not switched to Linux long ago?
However what I think kinda bad is the transcript sharing tool on the mcp page, WHERE DID THE DESIGNERS GO? I mean just black text on white background, and I am supposed to show-off to my new employer with this page, RIGHT! Shape this page please, at least to look like the printed version.
BR,
Magnus
Surely we need to know, what is really going on as MCPs! Its now August 21 and you can see the message below post here on response to my message.
Well first, its a month and i've not recieved my documents (Server 2009) i ordered for at a total of $14.90 USD. I come from Africa and before these changes M$ come up with, we used to get our kits in 5 days upon ordering. Yes 5 days but its now a month after we are paying extra money for those kits. What is happening.
Second, we were reliable informed here that August 17, 2009 the Virtual_Business_Cards will be out for us to appreciate! But there is total no news on that issue! Tell us what we are left with and when we should expect to appreciate those VB cards.
Cheers
Hi krsk, we appreciate the note! Unfortunately, the wallet cards (and the welcome kits they were a part of) are now a thing of the past.
The virtual business cards will be live next month. I realize that means you’ll wait an extra couple of weeks for your business card credentials, and I apologize for that. We’ll get it launched as quickly as we can, and I hope you’ll find it as much of an inspiration (if not more so!) than the physical wallet cards.
Posted by: Ken Rosen | Jul 14, 2009 at 8:11 am
I don't remember when I was able to use MCP site without problems.
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I spent a lot of money in exam fees and classrom trainings. I spent a lot of time and worked hard for passing the exams and all I get is just a "download-and-print-it-yourself" otherwise pay another fee ??? What will we get in exchange?
"... show them immediately that you are an MCP" A hiring manager still wants to see PAPER, no digital certificate.
And just another thought...
I passed another certification (not Microsoft) and I got a very nice paper certificate to hang up at my office. You now what? When I look at it, I'm very proud of it. And I can show it to others. :-)
Is the MS certification nothing to be proud of? "Not worth the paper"?
Very Poor...
Greetings from Switzerland
I am planning to get MCITP:EA and I had taken some courses for preparing the exam
Also, you guys charged us for the examination fees.
But what for now? You guys just use a Green Policy to hide out the truth that you guys want to get more money from the candidates!
If it is a Green Policy, why you guys would offer a printed Certificate with shipping and handling fees? It also consume papers from you guys. And you guys just said us (the candidates) not support with the Green Environmental Policy!! Craps!!!
Basically, for what the candidates assumed, taking the exam with examination fees should have the printed certificate and validation cards (you guys call wallet card) included. If such materials not included, so why we should paid for the exam?
I had finished two exams and already paid for the remaining exams, I can't quit no matters what new policies you guys go. But I'm 100% sure that this would be my first, and the last examination with Microsoft!!
The green policy is not about getting more money from candidates like yourself. From what I heard, we've actually haven't raised exam prices in a very long time which is something I don't think other companies can say. We strive to make exams as accessible as possible.
Also saving on paper is just the tip of the Going Green policy - it's not just the paper, but rather the shipping. If you ever looked up how much waste goes into air mailing items then you can start to understand why it's important that we take steps to minimize how much we ship.
Lastly, we had to look at the overall problem and make one decision and we realized that a lot of people (in fact a huge majority) didn't do anything with their welcome kits. This means that we printed a lot of paper and cardboard and shipped a huge amount of wasted material. Any monies we may have initially saved went into setting up the on demand printing process and the VBC so it's not like there was a lot of initial cost savings. However, we saved enough material and transportation waste to make this a good thing for the environment.
Now I recongnize that while a majority of MCPs may not have found value with the card, there are many vocal and valued MCPs on this blog who are very angry that the card is gone and we are hearing you. We immediately created ability to download your cert and setup the process to order a printed cert from us. We also started the VBC not as a replacement for the wallet card but to also expand benefits so that we weren't cutting too many benefits. Initially it was difficult to include the wallet card into that process but we'll take a second look at it. Already we have it in the planning process - but unfortunately I can't promise you anything at the moment.
If you want to see something change, I urge all of you to continue to be vocal on this blog. Tell us what you want to see done and we'll get it done. It may not happen overnight, but will as sure as hell do our best to get it done.
Reply to Erwin:
Thanks for your concern about our feelings. Yes, you are right that we need to look after our poor Earth. We done too many harmful actions to the plantnet.
But, paper certificates are the basic materials to certify a person archeivement. And here I would like to make suggestions (not arguing, because arguing here would not solve the problems, but suggestions can).
Erwin, as you said most people would never look into the materials within the Welcome Kit, and that would waste much more resources if you guys continue to send the Welcome Kit out, why don't you guys just send out the certificates and the wallet card, with one A4 letter to indicate that the Welcome Kit information can be accessible through the MCP website (If that's not the suggestions, just forgive me because I myself never received any Welcome Kits from Microsoft).
For the mailing of the Welcome Kit issue, why don't you consider about issue the package through the regional Microsoft Office (I reliease that Microsoft must have office over the World)? So, every Welcome Kit would be mailed with local delivery, and that should resolve the Air Mail from US cause CO2 emittion issue.
Hope I can getting reply soon and thank you very much for your reply.
one more concerns and suggestions.
When will the VBC launched? Because I had passed all the tests for MCITP, SA
and I'm finding nowhere within the MCP site that I can create my VBC (the one that used for replacement of the wallet card, and at least, some proof from you guys about my achievement...)
Reply to the office sending cert issue. How about shipping through ships instead of planes? Because from my observation from other forums about this Going Green Policy, most MCPs are angry with no cert and wallet cards provided by Microsoft after they finished the exam, so I think we don't mind waiting a little longer for getting the Welcome Kits. (And as far as I know, ships would be much environmental friendly than the planes, isn't it?) Then you guys can continue running the one or two distribution centers, saving tons of paper (by only provide the certs, wallet cards and one A4 letter about checking Welcome Kits information from MCP websites) and decrease the CO2 emitted by the planes, and most important thing is, each MCP would be happy and get a great experience from Microsoft (aren't you guys alway try to achieve this goal?).
Thank you very much for your reply Erwin and hope I can get back from you soon. ^^
Like I said many times, I wasn't in the discussion when they made the decision. I can check with ops to see what they went through in the decision, but ultimately I think the decision to stop sending welcome kits is done. The question right now is whether we'll offer wallet cards on demand like we do with paper certs.
You are keeping shipping of paper certs so only plastic card is gone. The question is how much pollution is done by plastic cards. I will tell you, for 1000kg of plastic up to 6000kg of CO2 emission are made. Doesn't sound good. But in place of simple plastic card you are putting new servers for VBC. Take a look at this MS Site:
http://www.microsoft.com/environment/greenit/Pr...
here Micorosft says that one server means almost 5000kg of CO2 each year.
Could you say again that VBC are greener? Do you know what greenwashing means? Do you know what would have happen if organisations like greenpeace could see your argumentation?
Have you measured how much pollution is done by two Bus Tours?
Pretending that this is for "the environment" is crap. With all the money that you get from our exam fees, you can't even send us a piece of plastic? Come on. this is ridiculous
Why have this message sent to me?
All my friends told me about what I receive once I am certified and I really looked forward to receiving this awesome package from Microsoft ONLY for MCP's - BIG DISAPPOINTMENT IT WAS WHEN NOTHING ARRIVED AND NOW I CAN'T EVEN ORDER MY OWN WALLET CARD ANYMORE!
Is it really worth it to DEVALUE your certifications by lowering your way of saying congratulations!? Do you think that little of your MCPs? Maybe we should start a website where you can send your wife digital flowers instead of real tangible beautiful flowers and see the excitement in her eyes!
Your mistake WILL cost you in the long run unfortunately. Don't for one second think that MCPs are stupid and will believe this going green thing as an excuse to cutting costs. It sounds and feels like a way of lowering expenses in a tough economic time.
Please bring back the Wallet Card - I will pay for it!
Thank you.
Regards
Karl.